Focuscoene
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<Member>
so two things:
A) if you want to run an ap heavy damage type support there are better choices:
Lux, Elise, Zyra to name a few. why? because their AP scalings/bonuses are FAR better.
B) your job as a support beyond bronze elo is to get your adc kills...if you play heavy damage and use all your money on non support items you won't have good map vision or bottom vision...you WILL get ganked by competent junglers...and if the other team isn't awful you will lose the game if they have vision and you don't..why? because they will catch people out in the fog alone...and gain 4v5 advantages.
A) if you want to run an ap heavy damage type support there are better choices:
Lux, Elise, Zyra to name a few. why? because their AP scalings/bonuses are FAR better.B) your job as a support beyond bronze elo is to get your adc kills...if you play heavy damage and use all your money on non support items you won't have good map vision or bottom vision...you WILL get ganked by competent junglers...and if the other team isn't awful you will lose the game if they have vision and you don't..why? because they will catch people out in the fog alone...and gain 4v5 advantages.
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^ They've got it right.
Sightstone is a nice vision item, but it won't hold up to late game when you need a lot of wards around. It also has a pretty small limit. Secondly, you're not getting nearly enough gold for those items. Especially with only one GP10, which you're building into an item that's not half bad if you're using all the passive parts of it, which you're not with that build since you're going over the 40% CDR cap.
Liandry's torment isn't a great item for Nami since your base damages aren't that great, and like Bio said above me, you don't have amazing AP scaling either.
Sightstone is a nice vision item, but it won't hold up to late game when you need a lot of wards around. It also has a pretty small limit. Secondly, you're not getting nearly enough gold for those items. Especially with only one GP10, which you're building into an item that's not half bad if you're using all the passive parts of it, which you're not with that build since you're going over the 40% CDR cap.
Liandry's torment isn't a great item for Nami since your base damages aren't that great, and like Bio said above me, you don't have amazing AP scaling either.
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Focuscoene
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<Member>
Straightforward, bullet-point answers? This is a noob's dream come true! Thank you.
Well, it isn't that I want heavy damage--it's that I want a powerful heal. The focus isn't damage, it's the passives (slow, etc.) to make the ADCs life easy-breezy.
Not arguing, just clarifying my purpose in hopes that maybe we can get me pointed in a direction that achieves this goal: big fat heals, and debuffs on the enemy.
B) your job as a support beyond bronze elo is to get your adc kills...if you play heavy damage and use all your money on non support items you won't have good map vision or bottom vision...you WILL get ganked by competent junglers...and if the other team isn't awful you will lose the game if they have vision and you don't..why? because they will catch people out in the fog alone...and gain 4v5 advantages.
I think maybe there's an item I'm not thinking of? What I had meant by "typical support items" was stuff like Shurelya's Battlesong and Mikael's Blessing. Stuff like this lacks any AP so they don't help much with the big fat heals.
What is the item that provides vision, other than Sightstone and its red buddy?
As for helping the ADC get their kills, that's precisely my idea behind going for a "debuff" style. It fits my playstyle, anyway, and I really do think it puts the ADC in an ideal chance to get the kill (lots and lots of CC'd enemies to pick off, with big fat heals to boot!)
Thanks again for the clear and intelligent response. Maybe through this discussion we can come up with something that works.
Bioalchemist wrote:
Well, it isn't that I want heavy damage--it's that I want a powerful heal. The focus isn't damage, it's the passives (slow, etc.) to make the ADCs life easy-breezy.
Not arguing, just clarifying my purpose in hopes that maybe we can get me pointed in a direction that achieves this goal: big fat heals, and debuffs on the enemy.
Bioalchemist wrote:
B) your job as a support beyond bronze elo is to get your adc kills...if you play heavy damage and use all your money on non support items you won't have good map vision or bottom vision...you WILL get ganked by competent junglers...and if the other team isn't awful you will lose the game if they have vision and you don't..why? because they will catch people out in the fog alone...and gain 4v5 advantages.
I think maybe there's an item I'm not thinking of? What I had meant by "typical support items" was stuff like
Shurelya's Battlesong and Mikael's Blessing. Stuff like this lacks any AP so they don't help much with the big fat heals.What is the item that provides vision, other than
Sightstone and its red buddy?As for helping the ADC get their kills, that's precisely my idea behind going for a "debuff" style. It fits my playstyle, anyway, and I really do think it puts the ADC in an ideal chance to get the kill (lots and lots of CC'd enemies to pick off, with big fat heals to boot!)
Thanks again for the clear and intelligent response. Maybe through this discussion we can come up with something that works.
Focuscoene wrote:
Well, it isn't that I want heavy damage--it's that I want a powerful heal. The focus isn't damage, it's the passives (slow, etc.) to make the ADCs life easy-breezy.
Or wards. Wards make your life much easier than some trivial speed boost and a tiny extra heal.
Focuscoene wrote:
I think maybe there's an item I'm not thinking of? What I had meant by "typical support items" was stuff like
Shurelya's Battlesong and Mikael's Blessing. Stuff like this lacks any AP so they don't help much with the big fat heals.Or you heal twice. Or have the vision to let your ADC not get caught out in the first place to have to rely on heals.
Focuscoene
<Member>
<Member>
Lugignaf wrote:
Sightstone is a nice vision item, but it won't hold up to late game when you need a lot of wards around. It also has a pretty small limit. Secondly, you're not getting nearly enough gold for those items. Especially with only one GP10, which you're building into an item that's not half bad if you're using all the passive parts of it, which you're not with that build since you're going over the 40% CDR cap.
I apologize, some of this is over my head--could you elaborate a bit on the part about the gold? I'm not sure what GP10 means. I'll look it up after I finish posting this.
You know, I had a feeling there was a CDR cap! I chose to blissfully believe that I could cooldown as much as I damned well please. 40%. Good to know. I'll make the tweaks.
Lugignaf wrote:
Liandry's torment isn't a great item for Nami since your base damages aren't that great, and like Bio said above me, you don't have amazing AP scaling either.
This is a good point. Liandry's doesn't even fit my "debuff" criteria, really. I think I liked it for the price-tag, honestly, and the price-tag of the items needed to build it. Consider it scratched from the list.
Thank you, sir!
Focuscoene
<Member>
<Member>
Satella wrote:
Or wards. Wards make your life much easier than some trivial speed boost and a tiny extra heal.
I mentioned in my original post that I put a heavy emphasis on warding. I agree that the value of warding cannot be overstated.
Satella wrote:
Or you heal twice. Or have the vision to let your ADC not get caught out in the first place to have to rely on heals.
Well, like I said, I do ward heavily. If you have another suggestion for increasing vision, I'd love to hear it. That's why I posted, after all.
If you are warding adequately, you will absolutely NOT have any gold to afford these items unless you're 9/0/30.
If you somehow can buy AP items it means you aren't warding or counterwarding enough.
If you somehow can buy AP items it means you aren't warding or counterwarding enough.
Focuscoene
<Member>
<Member>
Satella wrote:
If you are warding adequately, you will absolutely NOT have any gold to afford these items unless you're 9/0/30.
If you somehow can buy AP items it means you aren't warding or counterwarding enough.
Honestly, I don't usually get close to that complete build. That's more of a rough idea of where it goes toward. It has happened, once or twice, though. I should've made that clear.
Which means, of course, that you're probably right. I'm not warding enough. In unranked, I rarely see other supports with more than 2 or 3 wards up at once. Bad habits are there to be learned, in the bowels of the unranked.
Noted, and applied.
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The concept is to make her a debuff/healer combo. Since her heal,
The problem I can see people having is that I'm not using any of the typical support items. The only typical support item I use is
Anyway, the final build ends up looking something like this:
Now, this may look like some kind of AP Carry build, but I play her strictly as support. It's an important distinction. All that AP is going toward healing.
Anyway, will this do nothing but piss people off once I hit ranked? Or, worse yet, will it suddenly stop working and completely fail? Thanks for taking the time to answer, if you do, and, uh... go easy on meh, yeah?