Jungle Nation - Jungling Strategy Talk

[quote=Pølsemanden]If the champion is hard to play, yes - yes it does. Either because of the fact that you need a team to play properly around you or the fact that you know how to play. Lee is very hard to play and if you can't play him somewhat well he's just not strong compared to Vi or Jarvan who are both much simpler to play. I've seen too many failed Insec's at platinum to believe that lee's viable in the hands of a silver player. Another example would be playing shaco in low-elo where there's no reason to play him due to his bypassing wards feature being somewhat useless and a fed mid-laner in silver doesn't actually mean that much. Third one would be akali where in low-elo she just steamrolls everything and once you get to plat/diamond enemies will begin to counterplay you to the point of making you useless. Yes, elo does determine the strength of a handful of champions, but most champions are just overall balanced/strong/weak.[/quote]

[quote=C4 Lasty]Polse I disagree with you. If a champion is strong, he's strong in all elos. I've been Insec'd by silver kids. If you put in the hours to master a strong champion you'll do well whatever elo you're in.[/quote]

[quote=C4 Lasty]For the record, I've never been able to do a real 'Insec'. Q -> ward jump -> kick. Yet I have a 70% winrate w/ Lee. He out duels pretty much every other jungler and wins most 2v2/3v3 gank/countergank situations. He is a top 3 jungler right now, no question.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Well yes but if you'd put so much time into mastering a champion like [[lee sin]] you'll inevitably also start climbing elo because he is incredibly effective when you have the mechanics to back it up with. In my own personal experience, I've never seen a really good lee player anywhere below gold 3. They would just do so much random shit, but it did work for them simply because the enemies are just like himself.[/quote]

[quote=SteppenKat][quote=C4 Lasty] Yes he is. I've seen silver plays use Lee Sin properly. Elo has nothing to do with what champions are strong and weak. [/quote] I disagree. ELO defines how much you can pull of from a champion. People at Silver think AP [[Nidalee]] is bad, while anyone higher can tell you that it depends on the skill of the player.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=C4 Lasty] Polse I disagree with you. If a champion is strong, he's strong in all elos. I've been Insec'd by silver kids. If you put in the hours to master a strong champion you'll do well whatever elo you're in. [/quote] Can't argue with that Pølse; Lasty's opinion = fact.[/quote]

[quote=C4 Lasty][quote=SteppenKat] [quote=C4 Lasty] Yes he is. I've seen silver plays use Lee Sin properly. Elo has nothing to do with what champions are strong and weak. [/quote] I disagree. ELO defines how much you can pull of from a champion. People at Silver think AP [[Nidalee]] is bad, while anyone higher can tell you that it depends on the skill of the player. [/quote] You are incorrect, what people in different elos think of a champion is irrelevant. Tier 1 champions get to be tier 1 by their effectiveness overall in every league. To assume that all silver players have trashy mechanics or game knowledge is also incorrect. Some people are 'stuck' in silver because they try to play a bit of everything. Some players are stuck in silver because of low game knowledge or bad mechanics. I know silver Lee Sin players that have better Lee Sin mechanics than I do, they just play whatever champion they feel like playing atm and they have low game knowledge. Tier 1 champions are tier 1 because they are the strongest champions you can play, (regardless of your personal elo) in any particular role.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]But if you put in the hours to master a strong champion then you're probably not silver <.< If you can't do a "real insec" then why the fuck do you not play VI instead seeing she's also a very strong duelist throughout the game and has much greater lategame than lee? (legit question)[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]Lee sin has ridiculous early pressure due to his better ganks pre-6 and better counterjungle ability. Hes also one of the best junglers at getting out of counterganks and might be the very best counterganker in the game. Vi is also banned a lot around my elo.[/quote]

[quote=C4 Lasty]Vi is banned most games now, and Lee Sin can win a game before he's level 6. His counterjungle is also the best in the game. Polse you just contradicted yourself. 'If you put in the time to master a strong champion you probably aren't silver'. Thank you for proving my point. If you master a tier 1 champion you'll climb no matter what your skill level is.[/quote]