New player.. Character Selection help (Zeratul)

[quote=Thalia Kael]There's also [[Darius]], which has what I just said except for the jump and escape.[/quote]

[quote=TROLLing1999][quote=sirell] [quote=TROLLing1999] you call lux easy? you miss a skillshot and then you're crap[/quote] Yes, I do. Amongst all the skillshot champions in the game, she's got some of the easiest to hit. AoE E and R? Bouncing Q? [quote=TROLLing1999] also j4 needs some time to get used to his combos[/quote] E+Q. Wasn't hard. He's one of the easiest junglers to get a grip of. [quote=TROLLing1999] vayne is skill-cap i don't call her difficult, but you must have great reflexes and be able to work with the limited range[/quote] She's one of the few ADCs champion where you don't have to 100% focus on her skills and just need to auto. Sure, you won't be a GOOD [[vayne]], but she's easy to learn. Easier to learn dodging with [[vayne]]'s Q than [[caitlyn]]'s E. Also, the majority of ADCs have the same range as [[vayne]]. There are about 3 who outrange her (about 6 if you include range increases like [[draw a bead]]). [quote=TROLLing1999]thresh is quite hard to be used to his full potential because 1)his skillset consists of skillshot 2) teammates must be really good as well. [/quote] Who needs to learn the full potential? Who needs good teammates? He's just learning, ffs. Not to mention he actually wants a champion that hooks/swaps positions. Better [[thresh]] than [[blitzcrank]]. [[Thresh]] is a strong all-round support. If a skillshot is a bad thing, god forbid that you play a game where you need skillshots. [quote=TROLLing1999] So if you want a hook or swap-positions ability then go for: -[[blitzcrank]], [[thresh]], [[urgot]] If you're looking initiators you can choose from many: -[[malphite]], [[amumu]], [[leona]], [[zac]], [[thresh]] and many more tanks offtanks/ tanks with gap-closing+CC abilities but not all of them in every case If you want superhigh dps -[[vayne]], [[jax]], [[jinx]], [[master yi]] and many more If you like to go in, deal some damage and the go out, then i can only think of: -[[fizz]], [[leblanc]], [[zed]]( and with zed it is not always possible) [[kha'zix]] has huge burst damage and a gap closer, whose cooldown is reduced to 0 sec whenever you get a kill/assist(if evolved) and an ulti that gives his movement speed and invisibility for a little duration up to 3 times(if evolved- can't go into this now...look a kha'zix guide)[/quote] *Criticises me for suggesting [[thresh]], then suggests [[thresh]]* *Criticises me for suggesting [[vayne]], then suggests [[vayne]]* Bitch please, sit the fuck down. [/quote] 1st of all i suggested [[vayne]] for the dps, not because she is easy...[[jinx]] is also on the list and guess what? she's probably the adc that lacks moility most 2nd i suggested [[thresh]] cuz he spoke of hook, not cuz because he is easy. 3rd...ok i was speaking of playing all these four champ at their full potential, didn't realise he was lvl 1-5(or something) 4th you can't call me bitch cuz i'm not a woman/girl :P[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=TROLLing1999] 1st of all i suggested [[vayne]] for the dps, not because she is easy...[[jinx]] is also on the list and guess what? she's probably the adc that lacks moility most 2nd i suggested [[thresh]] cuz he spoke of hook, not cuz because he is easy. 3rd...ok i was speaking of playing all these four champ at their full potential, didn't realise he was lvl 1-5(or something) 4th you can't call me bitch cuz i'm not a woman/girl :P [/quote] You miss the point. Regardless of the reason, you criticised me for choosing champions for him which you end up choosing for him anyway. The reason you selected them doesn't matter. [[jinx]] has a huge MS boost on assist or kill. She is definitely NOT the ADC that lacks mobility the most. [[varus]]? [[Ashe]]? 4th - Yes, I can.[/quote]

[quote=TROLLing1999][quote=sirell] [quote=TROLLing1999] 1st of all i suggested [[vayne]] for the dps, not because she is easy...[[jinx]] is also on the list and guess what? she's probably the adc that lacks moility most 2nd i suggested [[thresh]] cuz he spoke of hook, not cuz because he is easy. 3rd...ok i was speaking of playing all these four champ at their full potential, didn't realise he was lvl 1-5(or something) 4th you can't call me bitch cuz i'm not a woman/girl :P [/quote] You miss the point. Regardless of the reason, you criticised me for choosing champions for him which you end up choosing for him anyway. The reason you selected them doesn't matter. [[jinx]] has a huge MS boost on assist or kill. She is definitely NOT the ADC that lacks mobility the most. [[varus]]? [[Ashe]]? 4th - Yes, I can. [/quote] I feel like you're missing the point as well... behind each decision there are reasons- [[thresh]] is for sure on of the most teammate dependant supports and his skillset is quite confusing as well for a level 1 champ( and i don't guess level 1-15 players will be good). So calling him easy is, in my opinion, wrong... The reason i recommend him is cuz he wants a hook+initiate, not cuz he is easy... Same for [[vayne]]- she is indeed a must learn adc cuz you simply learn quickly basics about positioning but she is also tricky. Marksmen like [[miss fortune]], [[ashe]] and [[caitlyn]] are better for start in my opinion. Again, the reason i recommend her is the fact that she has great dps, not cuz she is easy. And now about [[jinx]]... The MS boost you get is not enough, cuz simply she won't get a kill every 30 sec( not speaking of multi kills). Of course, there are marksmen that have even more lack in terms of mobility and this is the reason i wrote "probably" or do you prefer "arguably"? AND ONCE AGAIN I LISTED HER BECAUSE OF THE DPS! As i mentioned in my last comment, I was wrong to speak about full potential of champs, since i didn't realise he was so new to the game...but still you have to understand that a level 5 guy will probably struggle as [[thresh]], [[lux]], [[vayne]] due to the complex kits.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=TROLLing1999] behind each decision there are reasons- [[thresh]] is for sure on of the most teammate dependant supports and his skillset is quite confusing as well for a level 1 champ( and i don't guess level 1-15 players will be good). So calling him easy is, in my opinion, wrong...[/quote] And yet, we make the same decision in the end. Also, every support is extremely team dependent. On what basis do you state that [[thresh]] is for sure one of the most? >.> You need a team to follow up on ANY given support, so your argument is invalid. And [[thresh]] is very easy to get the hang of. You might have trouble with [[flay]], but that's pretty much it. He is the easiest kill-lane support to get the hang of atm (because learning [[blitzcrank]] is more than just his grabs). [quote=TROLLing1999] The reason i recommend him is cuz he wants a hook+initiate, not cuz he is easy...[/quote] And yet you recommend him nonetheless. And he is easy. Maybe you just really suck with him? [quote=TROLLing1999] Same for [[vayne]]- she is indeed a must learn adc cuz you simply learn quickly basics about positioning but she is also tricky. Marksmen like [[miss fortune]], [[ashe]] and [[caitlyn]] are better for start in my opinion. Again, the reason i recommend her is the fact that she has great dps, not cuz she is easy.[/quote] How hard is it to press Q? Also, [[miss fortune]] is easy for laning, but learning to teamfight with that ultimate? Not as easy as people think. I already listed the other two. [quote=TROLLing1999] And now about [[jinx]]... The MS boost you get is not enough, cuz simply she won't get a kill every 30 sec( not speaking of multi kills). Of course, there are marksmen that have even more lack in terms of mobility and this is the reason i wrote "probably" or do you prefer "arguably"? AND ONCE AGAIN I LISTED HER BECAUSE OF THE DPS![/quote] The 'probably' is always a get out clause. My point is that she is by no means anywhere near the lowest mobility ADC, which you claimed she 'probably' was. So she 'probably' isn't nor 'arguably' is. And that passive is a great disengage after a towerdive or dragon fight or baron fight, whereas [[ashe]]/[[varus]]/[[kog'maw]] could easily as died too. Also, every ADC has DPS. That's kinda why you get them. [quote=TROLLing1999] As i mentioned in my last comment, I was wrong to speak about full potential of champs, since i didn't realise he was so new to the game...but still you have to understand that a level 5 guy will probably struggle as [[thresh]], [[lux]], [[vayne]] due to the complex kits. [/quote] I don't know if you don't read or if you just don't know what you're talking about. [[thresh]] is probably one of the easiest kill supports to get the hang of atm. [[vayne]] literally doesn't have to worry about anything except autoattacking and [[lux]] has great AoE skillshots, so they're REALLY FUCKING HARD TO MISS. Since when is [[lux]] hard or complex? LMFAO. Maybe [[thresh]] is complex, but after 2-3 games, you get used to him. At least it's not [[blitzcrank]] pulling an ulting [[fiddlesticks]] into your team. If you want, you can list [[blitzcrank]] instead, but he can only hook and doesn't have any shields to give his ADC.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][[Soraka]] is only easy if you play her as a passive aura bot, but that's fine. I'd suggest [[Soraka]], [[Sona]], [[Taric]], and [[Lulu]]. Then starting on more complicated supports, as a lot of the technique transfers...missing a [[glitterlance]] isn't near as much of a problem as missing [[Death sentence]] (given that the cooldown of [[Death sentence]] is more than twice as long at early levels), but the practice with landing that skillshot will help when you start working with harder ones like [[Rocket Grab]] and [[Death Sentence]]. And [[Alistar]] isn't easy. [[Headbutt]] + [[Pulverize]] combo takes some time to master and is basically required to actually win match-ups with him.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]You guys are missing the point I think... he doesn't want an easy champion to learn, he has some experience in other MOBAs and wants to find a champion that fits the play style of a character from a different game[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]my only point was that going straight into [[Thresh]] or [[Blitz]] with very little idea how to play them won't really make you any friends. Even if he's used to playing other MOBAs, I'd still recommend starting with a champion who has a fairly easy to land skillshot before going straight into learning to predict for [[Death sentence]] or [[rocket grab]]. I actually think [[Nautilus]] is the closest to what he's talking about anyways. EDIT: Minus the AS probably.[/quote]

[quote=TROLLing1999][quote=sirell] [quote=TROLLing1999] behind each decision there are reasons- [[thresh]] is for sure on of the most teammate dependant supports and his skillset is quite confusing as well for a level 1 champ( and i don't guess level 1-15 players will be good). So calling him easy is, in my opinion, wrong...[/quote] And yet, we make the same decision in the end. Also, every support is extremely team dependent. On what basis do you state that [[thresh]] is for sure one of the most? >.> You need a team to follow up on ANY given support, so your argument is invalid. And [[thresh]] is very easy to get the hang of. You might have trouble with [[flay]], but that's pretty much it. He is the easiest kill-lane support to get the hang of atm (because learning [[blitzcrank]] is more than just his grabs). [quote=TROLLing1999] The reason i recommend him is cuz he wants a hook+initiate, not cuz he is easy...[/quote] And yet you recommend him nonetheless. And he is easy. Maybe you just really suck with him? [quote=TROLLing1999] Same for [[vayne]]- she is indeed a must learn adc cuz you simply learn quickly basics about positioning but she is also tricky. Marksmen like [[miss fortune]], [[ashe]] and [[caitlyn]] are better for start in my opinion. Again, the reason i recommend her is the fact that she has great dps, not cuz she is easy.[/quote] How hard is it to press Q? Also, [[miss fortune]] is easy for laning, but learning to teamfight with that ultimate? Not as easy as people think. I already listed the other two. [quote=TROLLing1999] And now about [[jinx]]... The MS boost you get is not enough, cuz simply she won't get a kill every 30 sec( not speaking of multi kills). Of course, there are marksmen that have even more lack in terms of mobility and this is the reason i wrote "probably" or do you prefer "arguably"? AND ONCE AGAIN I LISTED HER BECAUSE OF THE DPS![/quote] The 'probably' is always a get out clause. My point is that she is by no means anywhere near the lowest mobility ADC, which you claimed she 'probably' was. So she 'probably' isn't nor 'arguably' is. And that passive is a great disengage after a towerdive or dragon fight or baron fight, whereas [[ashe]]/[[varus]]/[[kog'maw]] could easily as died too. Also, every ADC has DPS. That's kinda why you get them. [quote=TROLLing1999] As i mentioned in my last comment, I was wrong to speak about full potential of champs, since i didn't realise he was so new to the game...but still you have to understand that a level 5 guy will probably struggle as [[thresh]], [[lux]], [[vayne]] due to the complex kits. [/quote] I don't know if you don't read or if you just don't know what you're talking about. [[thresh]] is probably one of the easiest kill supports to get the hang of atm. [[vayne]] literally doesn't have to worry about anything except autoattacking and [[lux]] has great AoE skillshots, so they're REALLY FUCKING HARD TO MISS. Since when is [[lux]] hard or complex? LMFAO. Maybe [[thresh]] is complex, but after 2-3 games, you get used to him. At least it's not [[blitzcrank]] pulling an ulting [[fiddlesticks]] into your team. If you want, you can list [[blitzcrank]] instead, but he can only hook and doesn't have any shields to give his ADC. [/quote] You state [[vayne]] is fucking easy...but a GOOD vayne player should know more than just auto-attacking. Cancelling animations, kiting, repositioning and many more are required to play vayne at a good level. On thresh...i haven't played him too much especially in ranked because i do not main supp and even if i do have to play as supp i prefer to get something like [[lulu]], [[sona]] or [[janna]]. Maybe he is the best killing support, maybe not, but for sure not the easiest- [[leona]] is much easier and [[taric]] as well although he's not a pure killing support given the fact that he can kind of babysit due to the heals and the armor aura. And tell me now! How many level 1 players will be able to land every single of [[lux]]'s skillshots! Of course it's easier than hitting other skillshot abilities but still...[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=TROLLing1999] You state [[vayne]] is fucking easy...but a GOOD vayne player should know more than just auto-attacking. Cancelling animations, kiting, repositioning and many more are required to play vayne at a good level. [/quote] That applies for ALL ADCs and a few good other champions too. So you basically told him to stay away from all ADCs. Good job! [quote=TROLLing1999] On thresh...i haven't played him too much especially in ranked because i do not main supp and even if i do have to play as supp i prefer to get something like [[lulu]], [[sona]] or [[janna]]. Maybe he is the best killing support, maybe not, but for sure not the easiest- [[leona]] is much easier and [[taric]] as well although he's not a pure killing support given the fact that he can kind of babysit due to the heals and the armor aura.[/quote] [[lulu]] is definitely a little knacky to play because she has duo abilities on W and E, and there's decisions involved in which one you should use. [[sona]] and [[janna]] are both fine supports to start with. [[leona]] is not easy at all. Most people will just dive the enemy as [[leona]] and then get killed. The same kinda goes for [[blitzcrank]], you can make a grab and then promptly get killed or get a teammate slain for grabbing. With [[thresh]] it's different because there is a grace period with his hook. [quote=TROLLing1999] And tell me now! How many level 1 players will be able to land every single of [[lux]]'s skillshots! Of course it's easier than hitting other skillshot abilities but still... [/quote] First of all, it's not a requirement that they land all of [[lux]]'s skillshots. It's about LEARNING. God-fucking damn. But if your argument is 'oh, this champion is skillshot reliant, therefore newbies shouldn't play her', then quite frankly, they are playing the wrong fucking game because according to your logic, they should never ever play a champion with a skillshot. If they're going to play this game, they're going to have to learn skillshots and if they're going to learn skillshots, [[lux]] and [[ezreal]] are going to be the ones you want to learn to play as first. [[lux]] is one of the easiest to learn skillshots with, so it's definitely worth learning her. You even admit her skillshots are easier to hit! There is no argumental ground for you to stand on anymore.[/quote]