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New player.. Character Selection help (Zeratul)

Creator: Smurfeh November 6, 2013 7:01am
Thalia Kael
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There's also Darius, which has what I just said except for the jump and escape.
Thanks to FatelBlade, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, TheNamelessBard, GrandmasterD, aviseras and koksei for the awesome signatures
TROLLing1999
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sirell wrote:



Yes, I do. Amongst all the skillshot champions in the game, she's got some of the easiest to hit. AoE E and R? Bouncing Q?



E+Q. Wasn't hard. He's one of the easiest junglers to get a grip of.



She's one of the few ADCs champion where you don't have to 100% focus on her skills and just need to auto. Sure, you won't be a GOOD Vayne, but she's easy to learn. Easier to learn dodging with Vayne's Q than Caitlyn's E. Also, the majority of ADCs have the same range as Vayne. There are about 3 who outrange her (about 6 if you include range increases like Draw a Bead).



Who needs to learn the full potential? Who needs good teammates? He's just learning, ffs. Not to mention he actually wants a champion that hooks/swaps positions. Better Thresh than Blitzcrank. Thresh is a strong all-round support. If a skillshot is a bad thing, god forbid that you play a game where you need skillshots.



*Criticises me for suggesting Thresh, then suggests Thresh*
*Criticises me for suggesting Vayne, then suggests Vayne*

***** please, sit the **** down.


1st of all i suggested Vayne for the dps, not because she is easy... Jinx is also on the list and guess what? she's probably the adc that lacks moility most
2nd i suggested Thresh cuz he spoke of hook, not cuz because he is easy.
3rd...ok i was speaking of playing all these four champ at their full potential, didn't realise he was lvl 1-5(or something)
4th you can't call me ***** cuz i'm not a woman/girl :P
sirell
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1st of all i suggested Vayne for the dps, not because she is easy... Jinx is also on the list and guess what? she's probably the adc that lacks moility most
2nd i suggested Thresh cuz he spoke of hook, not cuz because he is easy.
3rd...ok i was speaking of playing all these four champ at their full potential, didn't realise he was lvl 1-5(or something)
4th you can't call me ***** cuz i'm not a woman/girl :P


You miss the point. Regardless of the reason, you criticised me for choosing champions for him which you end up choosing for him anyway. The reason you selected them doesn't matter.

Jinx has a huge MS boost on assist or kill. She is definitely NOT the ADC that lacks mobility the most. Varus? Ashe?

4th - Yes, I can.
TROLLing1999
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sirell wrote:



You miss the point. Regardless of the reason, you criticised me for choosing champions for him which you end up choosing for him anyway. The reason you selected them doesn't matter.

Jinx has a huge MS boost on assist or kill. She is definitely NOT the ADC that lacks mobility the most. Varus? Ashe?

4th - Yes, I can.


I feel like you're missing the point as well...
behind each decision there are reasons- Thresh is for sure on of the most teammate dependant supports and his skillset is quite confusing as well for a level 1 champ( and i don't guess level 1-15 players will be good). So calling him easy is, in my opinion, wrong...
The reason i recommend him is cuz he wants a hook+initiate, not cuz he is easy...
Same for Vayne- she is indeed a must learn adc cuz you simply learn quickly basics about positioning but she is also tricky. Marksmen like Miss Fortune, Ashe and Caitlyn are better for start in my opinion. Again, the reason i recommend her is the fact that she has great dps, not cuz she is easy.


And now about Jinx...
The MS boost you get is not enough, cuz simply she won't get a kill every 30 sec( not speaking of multi kills). Of course, there are marksmen that have even more lack in terms of mobility and this is the reason i wrote "probably" or do you prefer "arguably"?
AND ONCE AGAIN I LISTED HER BECAUSE OF THE DPS!

As i mentioned in my last comment, I was wrong to speak about full potential of champs, since i didn't realise he was so new to the game...but still you have to understand that a level 5 guy will probably struggle as Thresh, Lux, Vayne due to the complex kits.
sirell
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behind each decision there are reasons- Thresh is for sure on of the most teammate dependant supports and his skillset is quite confusing as well for a level 1 champ( and i don't guess level 1-15 players will be good). So calling him easy is, in my opinion, wrong...


And yet, we make the same decision in the end.

Also, every support is extremely team dependent. On what basis do you state that Thresh is for sure one of the most? >.> You need a team to follow up on ANY given support, so your argument is invalid.

And Thresh is very easy to get the hang of. You might have trouble with Flay, but that's pretty much it. He is the easiest kill-lane support to get the hang of atm (because learning Blitzcrank is more than just his grabs).



The reason i recommend him is cuz he wants a hook+initiate, not cuz he is easy...


And yet you recommend him nonetheless. And he is easy. Maybe you just really suck with him?


Same for Vayne- she is indeed a must learn adc cuz you simply learn quickly basics about positioning but she is also tricky. Marksmen like Miss Fortune, Ashe and Caitlyn are better for start in my opinion. Again, the reason i recommend her is the fact that she has great dps, not cuz she is easy.


How hard is it to press Q? Also, Miss Fortune is easy for laning, but learning to teamfight with that ultimate? Not as easy as people think. I already listed the other two.


And now about Jinx...
The MS boost you get is not enough, cuz simply she won't get a kill every 30 sec( not speaking of multi kills). Of course, there are marksmen that have even more lack in terms of mobility and this is the reason i wrote "probably" or do you prefer "arguably"?

AND ONCE AGAIN I LISTED HER BECAUSE OF THE DPS!


The 'probably' is always a get out clause. My point is that she is by no means anywhere near the lowest mobility ADC, which you claimed she 'probably' was. So she 'probably' isn't nor 'arguably' is. And that passive is a great disengage after a towerdive or dragon fight or baron fight, whereas Ashe/ Varus/ Kog'Maw could easily as died too.

Also, every ADC has DPS. That's kinda why you get them.


As i mentioned in my last comment, I was wrong to speak about full potential of champs, since i didn't realise he was so new to the game...but still you have to understand that a level 5 guy will probably struggle as Thresh, Lux, Vayne due to the complex kits.


I don't know if you don't read or if you just don't know what you're talking about.

Thresh is probably one of the easiest kill supports to get the hang of atm. Vayne literally doesn't have to worry about anything except autoattacking and Lux has great AoE skillshots, so they're REALLY ****ING HARD TO MISS. Since when is Lux hard or complex? LMFAO. Maybe Thresh is complex, but after 2-3 games, you get used to him. At least it's not Blitzcrank pulling an ulting Fiddlesticks into your team. If you want, you can list Blitzcrank instead, but he can only hook and doesn't have any shields to give his ADC.
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Soraka is only easy if you play her as a passive aura bot, but that's fine.

I'd suggest Soraka, Sona, Taric, and Lulu. Then starting on more complicated supports, as a lot of the technique transfers...missing a Glitterlance isn't near as much of a problem as missing Death Sentence (given that the cooldown of Death Sentence is more than twice as long at early levels), but the practice with landing that skillshot will help when you start working with harder ones like Rocket Grab and Death Sentence.

And Alistar isn't easy. Headbutt + Pulverize combo takes some time to master and is basically required to actually win match-ups with him.
Thalia Kael
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You guys are missing the point I think... he doesn't want an easy champion to learn, he has some experience in other MOBAs and wants to find a champion that fits the play style of a character from a different game
Thanks to FatelBlade, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, TheNamelessBard, GrandmasterD, aviseras and koksei for the awesome signatures
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my only point was that going straight into Thresh or Blitzcrank with very little idea how to play them won't really make you any friends. Even if he's used to playing other MOBAs, I'd still recommend starting with a champion who has a fairly easy to land skillshot before going straight into learning to predict for Death Sentence or Rocket Grab.

I actually think Nautilus is the closest to what he's talking about anyways.

EDIT: Minus the AS probably.
TROLLing1999
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sirell wrote:



And yet, we make the same decision in the end.

Also, every support is extremely team dependent. On what basis do you state that Thresh is for sure one of the most? >.> You need a team to follow up on ANY given support, so your argument is invalid.

And Thresh is very easy to get the hang of. You might have trouble with Flay, but that's pretty much it. He is the easiest kill-lane support to get the hang of atm (because learning Blitzcrank is more than just his grabs).




And yet you recommend him nonetheless. And he is easy. Maybe you just really suck with him?



How hard is it to press Q? Also, Miss Fortune is easy for laning, but learning to teamfight with that ultimate? Not as easy as people think. I already listed the other two.



The 'probably' is always a get out clause. My point is that she is by no means anywhere near the lowest mobility ADC, which you claimed she 'probably' was. So she 'probably' isn't nor 'arguably' is. And that passive is a great disengage after a towerdive or dragon fight or baron fight, whereas Ashe/ Varus/ Kog'Maw could easily as died too.

Also, every ADC has DPS. That's kinda why you get them.



I don't know if you don't read or if you just don't know what you're talking about.

Thresh is probably one of the easiest kill supports to get the hang of atm. Vayne literally doesn't have to worry about anything except autoattacking and Lux has great AoE skillshots, so they're REALLY ****ING HARD TO MISS. Since when is Lux hard or complex? LMFAO. Maybe Thresh is complex, but after 2-3 games, you get used to him. At least it's not Blitzcrank pulling an ulting Fiddlesticks into your team. If you want, you can list Blitzcrank instead, but he can only hook and doesn't have any shields to give his ADC.


You state Vayne is ****ing easy...but a GOOD vayne player should know more than just auto-attacking.
Cancelling animations, kiting, repositioning and many more are required to play vayne at a good level.

On thresh...i haven't played him too much especially in ranked because i do not main supp and even if i do have to play as supp i prefer to get something like Lulu, Sona or Janna. Maybe he is the best killing support, maybe not, but for sure not the easiest- Leona is much easier and Taric as well although he's not a pure killing support given the fact that he can kind of babysit due to the heals and the armor aura.

And tell me now! How many level 1 players will be able to land every single of Lux's skillshots! Of course it's easier than hitting other skillshot abilities but still...
sirell
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You state Vayne is ****ing easy...but a GOOD vayne player should know more than just auto-attacking.
Cancelling animations, kiting, repositioning and many more are required to play vayne at a good level.


That applies for ALL ADCs and a few good other champions too. So you basically told him to stay away from all ADCs. Good job!


On thresh...i haven't played him too much especially in ranked because i do not main supp and even if i do have to play as supp i prefer to get something like Lulu, Sona or Janna. Maybe he is the best killing support, maybe not, but for sure not the easiest- Leona is much easier and Taric as well although he's not a pure killing support given the fact that he can kind of babysit due to the heals and the armor aura.


Lulu is definitely a little knacky to play because she has duo abilities on W and E, and there's decisions involved in which one you should use. Sona and Janna are both fine supports to start with. Leona is not easy at all. Most people will just dive the enemy as Leona and then get killed. The same kinda goes for Blitzcrank, you can make a grab and then promptly get killed or get a teammate slain for grabbing. With Thresh it's different because there is a grace period with his hook.


And tell me now! How many level 1 players will be able to land every single of Lux's skillshots! Of course it's easier than hitting other skillshot abilities but still...


First of all, it's not a requirement that they land all of Lux's skillshots. It's about LEARNING. God-****ing damn. But if your argument is 'oh, this champion is skillshot reliant, therefore newbies shouldn't play her', then quite frankly, they are playing the wrong ****ing game because according to your logic, they should never ever play a champion with a skillshot. If they're going to play this game, they're going to have to learn skillshots and if they're going to learn skillshots, Lux and Ezreal are going to be the ones you want to learn to play as first.

Lux is one of the easiest to learn skillshots with, so it's definitely worth learning her. You even admit her skillshots are easier to hit! There is no argumental ground for you to stand on anymore.

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