Ask a Diamond [Week 5: Bot lane]

[quote=Dychronius][quote=I want to be a Blitzball] For someone like [[thresh]]/[[leona]], should you run something like 0/13/17 or 0/21/9 or 0/9/21? [/quote] Not Diamond, silver 4 to be precise, but I main [[Thresh]] and [[Leona]] as my supports and I run 0/14/16 personally. Tanky+the extra points in utility for the bonus xp mastery.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Vynertje] Try to move yourself into the head of your enemy and know the exact projectile speed. Ask yourself: "Where would I be moving if I were the target" and then try to predict the exact distance he will move during the time the arrow travels, and then aim it at that spot. It also helps if you aim it in a narrow corridor (like the area around blue) because then he won't be able to sidestep it that easily. @ Natedog: 0/9/21 is good for a lot of supports, especially someone like karma who already relies a lot on movement speed. Defense is good for supports that go in the middle of the fight like morgana but for supports who stay at range it's a lot of wasted points. I myself run a 4/5/21 setup on squishy AP supports because it allows you to start with 10% CDR and all the goodies in utility. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/brQB23R.png[/IMG] [/quote] Idk it might just be me, but I really hate putting more than 9 points into the utility tree, it feels less rewarding than putting it into Defense or Offense personally.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Dychronius] [quote=I want to be a Blitzball] For someone like [[thresh]]/[[leona]], should you run something like 0/13/17 or 0/21/9 or 0/9/21? [/quote] Not Diamond, silver 4 to be precise, but I main [[Thresh]] and [[Leona]] as my supports and I run 0/14/16 personally. Tanky+the extra points in utility for the bonus xp mastery. [/quote] The extra points in defense offer only very little. It's either 21 in defense or 9, because everything inbetween is a waste. [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vynertje] Try to move yourself into the head of your enemy and know the exact projectile speed. Ask yourself: "Where would I be moving if I were the target" and then try to predict the exact distance he will move during the time the arrow travels, and then aim it at that spot. It also helps if you aim it in a narrow corridor (like the area around blue) because then he won't be able to sidestep it that easily. @ Natedog: 0/9/21 is good for a lot of supports, especially someone like karma who already relies a lot on movement speed. Defense is good for supports that go in the middle of the fight like morgana but for supports who stay at range it's a lot of wasted points. I myself run a 4/5/21 setup on squishy AP supports because it allows you to start with 10% CDR and all the goodies in utility. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/brQB23R.png[/IMG] [/quote] Idk it might just be me, but I really hate putting more than 9 points into the utility tree, it feels less rewarding than putting it into Defense or Offense personally. [/quote] It's your own perception, but if you look at all you get from my setup compared to a 0-21-9 setup: 10% CDR on startup, and another 10% on items. Slightly increased gold income, especially the extra gold on hit stacks nice with Spellthief Extra starting gold, allowing to grab a ward on startup while still allowing a potion. Slightly extra experience passively, which is really effective if you're roaming a lot with your jungler/mid. Movespeed: ranged champions benefit from this a lot because it allows more safety in lane, in order not to get caught. Even if you run 21 in defense, you're still relatively squishy so this avoids getting all-out all the time. The best points in deep defense are in [[legendary guardian]] and as a ranged champ you'll barely be in range to get the full +20 armor / +10 mr. The little bit extra flat armor is nice but doesn't weigh up to the other benefits.[/quote]

[quote=Out Of Pancakes]I see that you're still using armour seals and hp quints : why not armour quints and hp seals ? Is there a reasoning behind that or is it just because you don't wanna buy runes or because it doesn't make a big difference in your opinion or any other reason ? Why not using hpen marks on poke supports ? What starting items would you use for Thresh and Blitz ? How can you deal against a super bursty botlane such as Leona/Graves post6 ?[/quote]

[quote=sirell]Month or so in and I still don't know what kind of setup I should be using for an ADC. I've experimented with everything from AD, Lifesteal, AS, armor, CDR and mana regen, in the form of every Mark, Seal, Glyph and Quint variation that seems reasonable, but nothing has yet revealed itself to me as a convincing set-up to take in the majority of my matchups (the only exception being Blue [[ezreal]]). What would you guys recommend?[/quote]

[quote=Lisk]EDIT: Whooops, fixed the post. [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Lisk] Suppose a 2v2 fight goes on bot lane. The Blue Team's adc and the Purple Team's support kill each other, while the other two champs remain alive and with enough HP to stay in lane. Who wins the trade? On one hand, the Blue adc got a kill, but on the other hand, he will miss out on cs/experience. Sometimes there are situations when I'm playing as support, and I could flash + dive the enemy AD and kill him, but I will certainly die. Typically, I will play safe and not make that kind of play, but I've always thought about it. [/quote] Wooo! This is my area \m/ Bot lane Main 5lyfe. Anywho, let's start off with what team got the most worth out of this scenario. Blue Team's ADC just netted either first blood or 300 gold, and the purple team support just got 300 gold or first blood, BUT THEIR ADC ONLY GOT HALF! From the start of this scenario, the Blue Team won the trade, however, if the purple teams ADC stays to get enough gold to equate to that 150 or 200 more gold to make the gold amount of the kill the same, then all the sudden purple team won the trade. When you trade an ADC for a Support, whichever ADC gets the kill wins that exact trade. It's like chess, would you really trade your Queen for a pawn? And just realize, when you want to flash dive an ADC but sacrifice your life to do it, that's another how much gold for the other adc? It's a terrible thing to do, just puts the ADC further ahead. Also, take note that when you play as a support, if your ADC is dead before theirs, you failed somehow lol (that's how I see it when I let my ADC die xD) [/quote] Thanks for the response. I'm a little confused by the chess analogy. Is the ADC the queen or the pawn? Just to be clear, the situation I was imagining was first blood has already been taken top lane so it is irrelevant bot lane, and after the exchange the scoreboard looks like this: Blue ADC: 1-1-0 (dead) Blue Support: 0-0-1 Purple ADC: 0-0-1 Purple Support: 1-1-0 (dead) Also, in the second scenario where the support "flash dives" the enemy ADC, suppose you're 100% sure, or close to it, that you'll kill him. It's just that you have 20% life, so the tower shot will kill you. And your ADC will be alive no matter what, so that isn't part of the equation.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=sirell] Month or so in and I still don't know what kind of setup I should be using for an ADC. I've experimented with everything from AD, Lifesteal, AS, armor, CDR and mana regen, in the form of every Mark, Seal, Glyph and Quint variation that seems reasonable, but nothing has yet revealed itself to me as a convincing set-up to take in the majority of my matchups (the only exception being Blue [[ezreal]]). What would you guys recommend? [/quote] AD reds Seals are up to personal preference, my favorite pro streamer (Alliance Tabzz) recommends 4 armor seals and 5 hp seals. Flat mr glyphs are standard, you can add a few manareg glyphs on mana hungry carries. Quints are attack speed, you can add 1 ad quint if you want to last hit better.[/quote]

[quote=oxide110][quote=sirell] Month or so in and I still don't know what kind of setup I should be using for an ADC. I've experimented with everything from AD, Lifesteal, AS, armor, CDR and mana regen, in the form of every Mark, Seal, Glyph and Quint variation that seems reasonable, but nothing has yet revealed itself to me as a convincing set-up to take in the majority of my matchups (the only exception being Blue [[ezreal]]). What would you guys recommend? [/quote] Cait and fast pushing lanes [img=http://puu.sh/8FwCb/5f5b61b39d.jpg] When you may die soon or need to be not uber squishy (vayne for example) [img=http://puu.sh/8FwDb/f7875b9592.jpg][/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][size=1]obviously not diamond[/size] I've been looking over pro AD mains' runes ever since the changes. The two most popular pages I've seen are: 9x AD 9x Armour or 4x Armour and 5x Health 9x MR/MR per level or 5x MR/MR per level and 4x Mreg/AS 2x AS and 1x AD (Majority of EU/NA ADC mains) 9x AD 9x Health 9x MR/MR per level or 5x MR/MR per level and 4x Mreg/AS 2x Armour and 1x AD (Majority of Korean ADC mains I've been able to check and Doublelift) I still think lifesteal quints are pretty good with the first page instead of AS quints, especially in matchups where you're going to get poked a lot and/or your champion scales poorly with AS.[/quote]

[quote=Bokonon][quote=sirell] Month or so in and I still don't know what kind of setup I should be using for an ADC. I've experimented with everything from AD, Lifesteal, AS, armor, CDR and mana regen, in the form of every Mark, Seal, Glyph and Quint variation that seems reasonable, but nothing has yet revealed itself to me as a convincing set-up to take in the majority of my matchups (the only exception being Blue [[ezreal]]). What would you guys recommend? [/quote] I use AD reds, armor yellows, scaling MR blues, 2 AD quints and 1 AS quint. The seal and glyph choice might seem weird, but my point is that damage I take in botlane is almost exclusively physical - supports which deal lots of magic damage usually rely on skillshots, so as long as I play smart I can dodge everything they throw at me. That makes armor more valuable and mres less important in the early game. These runes also scale really nicely into mid-late game, because I'm going to build only one defensive item, and it's gonna be my 5th or 6th purchase meaning I won't build it at all in shorter games; when I have ~40 armor and mres every single point matters. As for quints, I use 2x AD because that suits my favourite ADCs - Draven and Lucian. Some champs benefit more from AS, in that case 2 or even 3 AS quints are a better choice.[/quote]