Why isn't anyone talking about the Nidalee Rework?

[quote=Mooninites][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=BlueArtist] Tell me more about how [[Quinn]]'s ult is the worst. [/quote] what ultimate is worse than [[quinn]]'s [/quote] You cannot simply state that one ultimate ability is the worst in the game. Champions should be looked at as a whole and one shouldn't single out an ability. In the current state I think: [[Idol of Durand]], [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]], [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], [[Unbreakable Will]], [[Impale]], [[Thunder Claws]], [[Tremors]], and [[Radiance]] are quite awful as well. They are at least as bad as [[Tag Team]] in their current state. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] is considered one of the most impactful ultimates in the game. The problem with [[Galio]] is the rest of his kit. Same goes for [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], it's actually an incredible ultimate, but [[maokai]] has other issues. [[Unbreakable Will]] is a fantastic ultimate, I literally have no fucking clue why you would think this is a bad ultimate. The problem with [[impale]] is that you can [[flash]] out of it. So yes, I guess that makes it a bad ultimate. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] is okay, it's pretty strong as an ult the problem is it's range. [[Tremors]] and [[Thunder Claws]] are bad ultiamtes, I'll give you that. [[Radiance]] isn't great, but it's not worse than [[Tag Team]]. You can potentially grant your team up to 210 AD late game, but a lot of it can be irrelevant. The usefulness of [[Tag Team]] is essentially to get to lane faster, run away, get to a fight faster, or execute someone. It has very little practicality in any scenario and her execute isn't even that strong after looking at the values. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] has a cool down that's off the charts and generally requires some form of repositioning skill to actually be able to do its job. Other than that it can easily be canceled out by on-hit interrupts (e.g. [[Bear Stance]]) and [[Cleanse]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] cancel it out completely. [[Vengeful maelstrom]] has an upkeep cost that is way too high and a pretty hefty cool down so you cannot reposition it; therefore you cannot keep up with mobility. It's a decent ultimate for damage reduction but there are at least 10 alternatives which are (a lot) better. [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing. Sure it gives you a good chunk of AD and reduction but [[Alistar]] does not scale with AD and his cool downs are as long as the universe is old. Sure you can nullify CC and counterengage but that's it. Once his Q and W are down, [[Alistar]] is a tank you can ignore; [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing to change that. Lastly, yes you can tank towers with it but then again, everyone can. [[Impale]] requires another repositioning skill which makes its actual cool down a lot higher (cuz [[Flash]]), also you can [[Flash]] out of it and QSS nullifies it. On top of that; it really does no damage. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] puts you in a very dangerous spot to begin with and it took a HUGE nerf back in S3 when they changed the way penetration works. The range is laughable and again, QSS nullifies it. Good we're on the same page regarding that. [[Radiance]] isn't amazing because it falls off incredibly quickly. For an ultimate it's just not impactful enough. It's not a terrible skill in general, but as ultimate it just doesn't quite cut it. [rule] [[Tag Team]] has a few uses. Generally it's used as chase tool and assassination tool and sometimes turns into an escape tool. [[Shadow Assault]] esque. During all stages of the game, it's (almost) impossible for any AA based champion to 1v1 [[Quinn]] as a result of her blind. [[Tag Team]] is a good consistent steroid and decent finisher. The major problem is the cool down which is absurd and obviously the fact you're trading 525 range for 125. [[Tag Team]] has a lot of uses that are generally overlooked. I'm not arguing that it's a great ultimate but it's definitely a lot better than people think. It contributes to her 1v1 potential and split-pushing power. On top of that it's a solid disengage, engage and even re-engage tool. [[Tag Team]] has multiple uses and doesn't require other skills in order to be useful. The cool down is heavy, as are of all the others I've mentioned, but at least the consistency is high. [quote=Mooninites]This is honestly the dumbest post I've ever seen you make. None of the ultimates you listed are worse than [[Quinn]]'s, and you can absolutely look at ultimate's individually. In fact, a lot of the ultimates you listed are incredibly strong.[/quote] Thank you for making yourself look like the idiot you are so I don't have to. The ultimates I've mentioned have major strategic flaws of which one is consistency. In any strategic game, consistency is the most important aspect. However, you apparently fail to realise this. [/quote] Cooldown does not always determine the strenght of an ultimate. Virtually every hard CC in the game can be removed by [[Clenase]] or QSS, that doesn't make it bad. It has th same cooldown as [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] and a longer range. Surely you would not say that [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is a bad ultimate. It's roughly the same cooldown as [[Onslaught of Shadows]], [[Crowstorm]], [[Monsoon]], etc. You probably wouldn't call those bad ultimates; but I guess by your logic they are because of the cooldown. Tell me what ultimate gives a 600 range 20% AoE damage reduction. The cooldown is high, but the mana cost is 70 + 30 for every second, it's really not that bad. You can't reposition it, but a well positioned one is incredible. We're talking about the strength of the ultimate, if you fail to use it properly thats on you the player, it shouldn't have anything to do with the ultimate itself [[Unbreakable Will]] gives a 50-70% physical and magic damage reduction. It also breaks CC and gives a pretty substantial AD steroid for 7 seconds. I don't know about you, but a 50-70% damage reduction is pretty fucking significant. I mean you have to be a retard to say it does nothing. I don't know about you, but i use [[impale]] to suppress someone, not to nuke them, I really don't give a shit that it does minimal damage. It has it's flaws, but still more useful than [[Tag team]] [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] - the fact that they changed the way penetration works does not make the 60/90/120 Armor and MR you get irrelevant. Again, just because you can buy an item or take a summoner to cleanse CC does not make it bad; I mean, if you're going to pull anything out of your ass, at the least pull your head out with it I wonder where the fuck you come up with this shit. I mean you're really pushing nicknamemy for the dumbest fucking posts.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]To be fair, most people generally only complain about the mid~late game spear-throwing aspect during sieges, but another reason why Nid is extremely strong is her roams post 6. Her ult + pounce lets her accomplish so much by roaming, almost guaranteeing kills. Even if she chooses not to roam, she can just hold the lane and rack up power for mid game / late game. And honestly though people really overstate her power. She's only extremely strong when she's ahead. Nidalee when behind has a very low impact :/ I would consider Nidalee a strong pick but definitely not one that's broken as fuck. We haven't had a champ that was extremely broken in a while. Nevertheless, I don't know how these nerfs would play out and I certainly don't like them very much. I think they should've just nerfed Nid's Q's cooldown and changed it so that it would lower back to the current cooldown we have if it hits someone. Who knows though kit may come out as interesting. Bruiser Nid seems to be the "way" to play this, or maybe even an early ad mid~late AP would work too.[/quote]

[quote=BlueArtist][quote=TROLLing1999] It sets a squishy champion into melee range, thus makes her very easy to kill. It's a strong ultimate in 1vs1 and 2vs2 fights and for chasing/ escaping but it is incredibly risky in teamfights, unless you play her as a bruiser. [/quote] Well obviously if you pop [[Tag Team]] straight away, you're gonna get erased instantly. It does not justify why it is the worst ultimate. [[Quinn]]'s kit do not force her to go into Valor in teamfight, except to clean up and chasing down fleeing enemies, or to disengage/re-engage. Her E Q R, landing an AA in between each skill, while in [[Tag Team]] makes her 1v1 extremely potent, which the combo usually makes the target unable to retaliate, because of the interrupt and blind. The execution power on the reactivate is strong, and not to mention, if you use the skill solely for finishing someone off, you do not necessarily have to put yourself in danger since there is a trick so that when you [[Vault]] and reactivate [[Skystrike]] you can switch back into human form and thus bounce back. It is the usage of the ultimate that renders it good/bad. This ultimate is underestimated, and it in fact is a very strong ultimate, especially in laning phase. I agree in whatever GrandmasterD stated in every way.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Mooninites] Cooldown does not always determine the strenght of an ultimate. Virtually every hard CC in the game can be removed by [[Clenase]] or QSS, that doesn't make it bad. It has th same cooldown as [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] and a longer range. Surely you would not say that [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is a bad ultimate. It's roughly the same cooldown as [[Onslaught of Shadows]], [[Crowstorm]], [[Monsoon]], etc. You probably wouldn't call those bad ultimates; but I guess by your logic they are because of the cooldown. Tell me what ultimate gives a 600 range 20% AoE damage reduction. The cooldown is high, but the mana cost is 70 + 30 for every second, it's really not that bad. You can't reposition it, but a well positioned one is incredible. We're talking about the strength of the ultimate, if you fail to use it properly thats on you the player, it shouldn't have anything to do with the ultimate itself [[Unbreakable Will]] gives a 50-70% physical and magic damage reduction. It also breaks CC and gives a pretty substantial AD steroid for 7 seconds. I don't know about you, but a 50-70% damage reduction is pretty fucking significant. I mean you have to be a retard to say it does nothing. I don't know about you, but i use [[impale]] to suppress someone, not to nuke them, I really don't give a shit that it does minimal damage. It has it's flaws, but still more useful than [[Tag team]] [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] - the fact that they changed the way penetration works does not make the 60/90/120 Armor and MR you get irrelevant. Again, just because you can buy an item or take a summoner to cleanse CC does not make it bad; I mean, if you're going to pull anything out of your ass, at the least pull your head out with it I wonder where the fuck you come up with this shit. I mean you're really pushing nicknamemy for the dumbest fucking posts. [/quote] I don't think you're reading his posts entirely. His first post mentioned not ranking the ultimate by itself, but by how well it goes with the kit. For instance. Obviously [[Curse of the sad mummy]], [[Onslaught of shadows]] etc are good because those champions have innate ways to set up their ultimates. The ultimates are good both by themselves and because the kit sets it up (Gap closers are OP). Meanwhile [[Galio]] and [[Skarner]] have to flash to actually get their ult to function properly most of the time, and are even still they can easily fail. Urgot's ult and Skarner's ult specifically are pretty bad, because not only does their kit not facilitate their existence well, the actual effect is better done by [[Warwick]] or [[Vi]] (Mostly because they deal damage and can kill targets very quickly with their ult alone). Lastly, he never argued the DR and AD from Ali's ult being bad. He said that Alistar mostly gets ignored anyway so his ultimate is pretty moot. He doesnt deal much damage at all even with that bonus AD (and let's be fair AD doesn't do much of anything for him). You're being condescending, insulting, and unreasonable. You aren't even reading the posts thoroughly.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]This is getting slightly off topic... I mean I don't think Quinns ult sucks, but I think that you can't just change Nidalee's ult to something thats way more difficult to use, completely unrelated to the rest of her kit, and probably a pain because you can't use it in teamfights.[/quote]

[quote=TROLLing1999][quote=BlueArtist] Well obviously if you pop [[Tag Team]] straight away, you're gonna get erased instantly. It does not justify why it is the worst ultimate. [[Quinn]]'s kit do not force her to go into Valor in teamfight, except to clean up and chasing down fleeing enemies, or to disengage/re-engage. Her E Q R, landing an AA in between each skill, while in [[Tag Team]] makes her 1v1 extremely potent, which the combo usually makes the target unable to retaliate, because of the interrupt and blind. The execution power on the reactivate is strong, and not to mention, if you use the skill solely for finishing someone off, you do not necessarily have to put yourself in danger since there is a trick so that when you [[Vault]] and reactivate [[Skystrike]] you can switch back into human form and thus bounce back. It is the usage of the ultimate that renders it good/bad. This ultimate is underestimated, and it in fact is a very strong ultimate, especially in laning phase. I agree in whatever GrandmasterD stated in every way. [/quote] Still Quinn's ultimate does not really fit with her kit or with what should be an adcs kit. I know the trick you're talking about but even if you pull it off you're still vulnerable to CC and so on. You don't want to use [[tag team]] in a teamfight(even the trick does not gurantee you safety and it doesn't bring the whole damage to the table since it forces you to [[skystrike]] early) unless it is to clear the fleeing or to escape. Definately not the worst ultimate to be absolute but one of the worst among marksmen because you don't really want a squishy target to go in close range in various situations.[/quote]

[quote=BlueArtist][[Urgot]]'s one is worse. Anyway, anyone is actually on pbe and tried new [[Nidalee]]?[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]It's not on PBE yet.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Mooninites] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=BlueArtist] Tell me more about how [[Quinn]]'s ult is the worst. [/quote] what ultimate is worse than [[quinn]]'s [/quote] You cannot simply state that one ultimate ability is the worst in the game. Champions should be looked at as a whole and one shouldn't single out an ability. In the current state I think: [[Idol of Durand]], [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]], [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], [[Unbreakable Will]], [[Impale]], [[Thunder Claws]], [[Tremors]], and [[Radiance]] are quite awful as well. They are at least as bad as [[Tag Team]] in their current state. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] is considered one of the most impactful ultimates in the game. The problem with [[Galio]] is the rest of his kit. Same goes for [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], it's actually an incredible ultimate, but [[maokai]] has other issues. [[Unbreakable Will]] is a fantastic ultimate, I literally have no fucking clue why you would think this is a bad ultimate. The problem with [[impale]] is that you can [[flash]] out of it. So yes, I guess that makes it a bad ultimate. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] is okay, it's pretty strong as an ult the problem is it's range. [[Tremors]] and [[Thunder Claws]] are bad ultiamtes, I'll give you that. [[Radiance]] isn't great, but it's not worse than [[Tag Team]]. You can potentially grant your team up to 210 AD late game, but a lot of it can be irrelevant. The usefulness of [[Tag Team]] is essentially to get to lane faster, run away, get to a fight faster, or execute someone. It has very little practicality in any scenario and her execute isn't even that strong after looking at the values. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] has a cool down that's off the charts and generally requires some form of repositioning skill to actually be able to do its job. Other than that it can easily be canceled out by on-hit interrupts (e.g. [[Bear Stance]]) and [[Cleanse]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] cancel it out completely. [[Vengeful maelstrom]] has an upkeep cost that is way too high and a pretty hefty cool down so you cannot reposition it; therefore you cannot keep up with mobility. It's a decent ultimate for damage reduction but there are at least 10 alternatives which are (a lot) better. [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing. Sure it gives you a good chunk of AD and reduction but [[Alistar]] does not scale with AD and his cool downs are as long as the universe is old. Sure you can nullify CC and counterengage but that's it. Once his Q and W are down, [[Alistar]] is a tank you can ignore; [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing to change that. Lastly, yes you can tank towers with it but then again, everyone can. [[Impale]] requires another repositioning skill which makes its actual cool down a lot higher (cuz [[Flash]]), also you can [[Flash]] out of it and QSS nullifies it. On top of that; it really does no damage. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] puts you in a very dangerous spot to begin with and it took a HUGE nerf back in S3 when they changed the way penetration works. The range is laughable and again, QSS nullifies it. Good we're on the same page regarding that. [[Radiance]] isn't amazing because it falls off incredibly quickly. For an ultimate it's just not impactful enough. It's not a terrible skill in general, but as ultimate it just doesn't quite cut it. [rule] [[Tag Team]] has a few uses. Generally it's used as chase tool and assassination tool and sometimes turns into an escape tool. [[Shadow Assault]] esque. During all stages of the game, it's (almost) impossible for any AA based champion to 1v1 [[Quinn]] as a result of her blind. [[Tag Team]] is a good consistent steroid and decent finisher. The major problem is the cool down which is absurd and obviously the fact you're trading 525 range for 125. [[Tag Team]] has a lot of uses that are generally overlooked. I'm not arguing that it's a great ultimate but it's definitely a lot better than people think. It contributes to her 1v1 potential and split-pushing power. On top of that it's a solid disengage, engage and even re-engage tool. [[Tag Team]] has multiple uses and doesn't require other skills in order to be useful. The cool down is heavy, as are of all the others I've mentioned, but at least the consistency is high. [quote=Mooninites]This is honestly the dumbest post I've ever seen you make. None of the ultimates you listed are worse than [[Quinn]]'s, and you can absolutely look at ultimate's individually. In fact, a lot of the ultimates you listed are incredibly strong.[/quote] Thank you for making yourself look like the idiot you are so I don't have to. The ultimates I've mentioned have major strategic flaws of which one is consistency. In any strategic game, consistency is the most important aspect. However, you apparently fail to realise this. [/quote] Cooldown does not always determine the strenght of an ultimate. Virtually every hard CC in the game can be removed by [[Clenase]] or QSS, that doesn't make it bad. It has th same cooldown as [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] and a longer range. Surely you would not say that [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is a bad ultimate. It's roughly the same cooldown as [[Onslaught of Shadows]], [[Crowstorm]], [[Monsoon]], etc. You probably wouldn't call those bad ultimates; but I guess by your logic they are because of the cooldown. Tell me what ultimate gives a 600 range 20% AoE damage reduction. The cooldown is high, but the mana cost is 70 + 30 for every second, it's really not that bad. You can't reposition it, but a well positioned one is incredible. We're talking about the strength of the ultimate, if you fail to use it properly thats on you the player, it shouldn't have anything to do with the ultimate itself [[Unbreakable Will]] gives a 50-70% physical and magic damage reduction. It also breaks CC and gives a pretty substantial AD steroid for 7 seconds. I don't know about you, but a 50-70% damage reduction is pretty fucking significant. I mean you have to be a retard to say it does nothing. I don't know about you, but i use [[impale]] to suppress someone, not to nuke them, I really don't give a shit that it does minimal damage. It has it's flaws, but still more useful than [[Tag team]] [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] - the fact that they changed the way penetration works does not make the 60/90/120 Armor and MR you get irrelevant. Again, just because you can buy an item or take a summoner to cleanse CC does not make it bad; I mean, if you're going to pull anything out of your ass, at the least pull your head out with it [/quote] You don't read. Consistency defines it, not cool downs in general. [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is instant, [[Amumu]] can do other things while the enemy is stunned (not technically a stun since it doesn't interrupt but w/e), [[Galio]] can not. Also, [[Amumu]] has a built-in gap-closer and [[Galio]] doesn't which contributes to its consistency. On its own, [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] isn't that great either. [[Onslaught of Shadows]] and [[Crowstorm]] even come with a gap-closer; making them a lot more consistent. [[Unbreakable Will]] doesn't change the fact that [[Alistar]] is a tank one can simply ignore due to his high cool downs on Q and W. It's like "Look at me, you can't kill me", to which the appropriate response is "That's fine, we don't really have to.". And QSS instantly removes the suppress, thus nullifying the ability. However, go ahead. Go ahead and convince people that an ultimate that can be completely fucked over by an item that costs 1880 Gold is still an ultimate which is consistently stronger than [[Tag Team]]. It doesn't make it bad, it makes it less consistent. Consistency is everything. Your combo can be the most badass thing in the world, but if you can almost never use it then why would you even bother? The 60/90/120 resistances isn't terrible but you gain it after the channel so if the channel gets interrupted you won't get it at all. And even so, you're vulnerable while channeling so you take additional damage then. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] takes 1 total second from you during which you would be able to do damage. [quote=Mooninites] I wonder where the fuck you come up with this shit. I mean you're really pushing nicknamemy for the dumbest fucking posts.[/quote] You wonder so much because you don't read properly. Ignorance isn't always bliss.[/quote]

[quote=FantasySniper]Ok, this is being blown [i]waaaaay[/i] out of proportion. I was merely suggesting a way to fix her duo-kit by making her ultimate a powerful, but temporary, transformation instead of giving her the free will to use such a broad - yet somehow overly-effective - kit. Obviously, if it won't work, [i]it won't work[/i].[/quote]