7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=mastrer1000] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] Nasus outscales everything. [/quote] Technically, so do [[sion]] and [[veigar]], but that is not the case. :P[/quote]

[quote=Zordagoth]And [[thresh]]. Where is [[poppy]] ? Also 2 times [[teemo]] in top (one in tier 2 and one in 3)[/quote]

[quote=LevasK]Zordagoth- Probably 1 spot for AD [[Teemo]] and 1 for AP.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex][quote=Vapora Dark] Technically, so do [[sion]] and [[veigar]], but that is not the case. :P [/quote] free AD+LS > free HP+temporaryLS > free AP edit: forgot about thresh (free AP+Armor) but still under [[Nasus]] (woof!)[/quote]

[quote=I want to be a Blitzball]How strong is [[Riven]] right now? (mid and top). What makes [[Zed]] place lower than Yasuo? Is it that [[Yasuo]] brings more to a team?[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=I want to be a Blitzball] How strong is [[Riven]] right now? (mid and top). What makes [[Zed]] place lower than Yasuo? Is it that [[Yasuo]] brings more to a team? [/quote] Yasuo gets (nearly) double the cost efficiency from crit chance, which is insane. He's almost always ahead because of that. He's getting more stats than you even if he has a smaller gold income. Zed isn't bad, but Yasuo's just ridiculous.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] .... Are we talking about the same game? I feel like I've missed something. If we go based on full builds and max level to "test" scaling, I can guarantee you that Ryze is going to lose to Jax, Shyvana in most scenarios,and Trundle in most scenarios. The other matchups would be a tossup, but by god it sounds like you're making Ryze out to be the best top laner there is when he barely gets picked/played and really only for countering Renekton top or going for a comfort pick. The top laners before him are basically the best and most viable duelists in the game right now currently, and to hear that Ryze outscales them is a bit farfetched. His late game isn't superb, if it was then you'd see Ryze's single handedly carrying games, and all I've heard pro players say is "Ryze is really hard to carry with top lane, Shyvana, Jax, and Irelia are the go-to carries." and even then they say Irelia is on the lower end of them and you can usually pick up Shyvana or Jax, so idk man, higher level play/players disagrees with him having a "superb" late game, he's strong dont get me wrong, but not good enough to call superb.[/quote]

[quote=I want to be a Blitzball]Vapora you forgot [[Riven]] :([/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]Where's Fiora jungle? IMO it's pretty good right now.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=tehAsian] Where's Fiora jungle? IMO it's pretty good right now. [/quote] So I've heard, OTG raves about it all the time to me rofl. There are a lot of Fiora mains floating around the Diamond ELO's, so we'll see if any pro players pick it up for some shenanigans huehueheuehue. Seems to be around the Tier 2 range, not sure if its top of it or lower, might even just be mid.[/quote]