Mooninites wrote:
Incorrect.
Irelia is primarily a mid game oriented champion. She doesn't have as much utility as other toplaners like
Shyvana and Trundle which means she's far less relevant in hyper late game teamfights. She still remains a strong splitpusher though.
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Vynertje wrote:
Ding! Ding! Ding! Thanks Vynertje. Irelia is crazy mid game if fed, but late game She is closer to
Renekton and Lee Sin than she is to the trifecta of Trundle, Shyvana, and Jax.@moon - Yorick outscales Irelia late game if you take into account his passive. You can have up to 20 percent more damage and 20 percent less damage taken during any fight. Yorick without his ghouls does not outscale irelia with his ghouls up he does.
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You're both wrong. What makes Trundle and Shyvana strong is the free stats they get. Shyv gets so many free armor and resistance stats and trunle gets a **** ton of attack speed, AD, and defensive stats. It has nothing to do with utility. Shyvana provides very little utility in general, so thats certainly not why teams pick her.
Irelia is nothing like Renekton or Lee Sin; those are champions that are insanely strong early and fall off late. You could not be further from the truth, they have entirely opposite power curves
Trundle and Shyvana strong is the free stats they get. Shyv gets so many free armor and resistance stats and trunle gets a **** ton of attack speed, AD, and defensive stats. It has nothing to do with utility. Shyvana provides very little utility in general, so thats certainly not why teams pick her. Irelia is nothing like Renekton or Lee Sin; those are champions that are insanely strong early and fall off late. You could not be further from the truth, they have entirely opposite power curves
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Irelia is good late game Vynertje, not sure why you're saying she peaks at mid game. She may not be on par with Jax but she's still probably in the top 5 late game top laners.
I think the thing with Yorick is that his late game is only as good as his carry's and relies more on circumstance than someone like Shyvana. He certainly doesn't have a guaranteed, godly or "OP" late game all the time. If your ADC gets initiated on or your ultimate ghost is killed off (or your AD carry is weak atm), Yorick's late game is awful. He's more kite-able than Udyr and Garen and lacks any sort of meaningful disruption as a tank. If you build enough damage to kill people, you drop pretty fast too.
tldr: Yorick's ultimate is strong late game. He, as a champion, is not on the same level as Trundle/Shyvana late game in terms of damage, durability and utility.
I think the thing with Yorick is that his late game is only as good as his carry's and relies more on circumstance than someone like Shyvana. He certainly doesn't have a guaranteed, godly or "OP" late game all the time. If your ADC gets initiated on or your ultimate ghost is killed off (or your AD carry is weak atm), Yorick's late game is awful. He's more kite-able than Udyr and Garen and lacks any sort of meaningful disruption as a tank. If you build enough damage to kill people, you drop pretty fast too.
tldr: Yorick's ultimate is strong late game. He, as a champion, is not on the same level as Trundle/Shyvana late game in terms of damage, durability and utility.
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As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes
Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton
not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm.
Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements.
After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about.
To specific people:
Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird
yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol
talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies
kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though.
rengar is super overrated
kayle is a ******edly powerful hero who should never have been created
Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton
not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm.
Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements.
After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about.
To specific people:
Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird
yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol
talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies
kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though.
rengar is super overrated
kayle is a ******edly powerful hero who should never have been created
Mooninites wrote:
You're both wrong. What makes
Trundle and Shyvana strong is the free stats they get. Shyv gets so many free armor and resistance stats and trunle gets a **** ton of attack speed, AD, and defensive stats. It has nothing to do with utility. Shyvana provides very little utility in general, so thats certainly not why teams pick her. Irelia is nothing like Renekton or Lee Sin; those are champions that are insanely strong early and fall off late. You could not be further from the truth, they have entirely opposite power curvesIrelia, renek, and lee all have strong midgames. Irelia has a weaker early than those 2, but lategame she is better than both. Slightly better than renek, noticeably better than lee.
utopus wrote:
Of that note, how has your professional scene been going? I know you did the LCS challenger series, but are you planning to look for another more experienced amateur team to join, or stay with your current group?
Has there been anything sprcial happening since e challenger series tournament.
Got picked up as a sub for frank fang which is nientonsohs challenger team, they are currently top 4 in challenger series. been trying out and floating around on different teams to start for.
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Yorick does not scale with
Incorrect on one point. Yorick more than easily scales with Irelia depending on build. No one scales with Jax.
I never said Yorick Top was OP. I said it was OP in it's split push. you can clear a wave faster than just about anyone without the cost of a tiamat with only one damage item. Yorick's jungle clear time, sustainability, and inability to be taken down in his own jungle 1v1 by any current meta jungler is legit.
Thanks for your opinion, but while I was incorrect about Jax scaling (stuck in hype mode).