Love the guide! great analysis on Diana. Great job on the content and structure as well as the design. Easy to undertsand, love the abilities analysing and explaining when , where, and how to use them, great combos section and I see a lot of potential to update in the guide. Keep up the great work!

GG for the stream really like it! ^_^

Heyy, let me start by saying this is a very good guide!

I personally don't like your guide because I prefer a more utility-assassin playstyle (Stormraider's Surge, Nashors etc) but that is all personal so nothing bad about that here, I actually love it that you specifically point out that this guide is only for the full burst AP assassin :)

However I do have a few points I'd like to share with you: (btw, I was only Gold II in S6 so I'm not super good at the game, I just have around 160k xp on Diana so I know her pretty much inside out and tried every possible build and playstyle(hello guinsoo's rageblade xD).

What is this "Movement Speed" you keep talking about?? (introduction, pros/cons, items and the gank) Diana has no real Movement Speed in her kit, at all? I mean you buy boots. and with Runic and Lich you get some extra movespeed as well, but that's not super fast or anything. Ok I think that Chilling smite is the only thing that actually gives you any significant movement speed, you just make it sound like she has some sick MS steroid: "Due to her shield from Pale Cascade and Movement Speed, she is able to walk away alive after an assassination". If you get Stormraider's however then she does, but you opt for TLD (for more assassination burst, which I think is a good point), I just wonder what you mean because I don't fully understand it.

Mark of Hybrid penetration: I don't think this is a good choice ever. I mean, Diana has the lowest base AD of ALL melee champions in the game. (at lvl 1, not counting the hybrids like elise, at lvl 18 only rengar has less) you are not going to deal any dmg with your basic attacks except your 3rd, so if you want to exploit that, I think getting AS instead of hybrid pen is better for Diana.

I LOVE boots of lucidity, just beware that it's very easy to cross the 40% CDR with this (since rito decided to give 10% CDR to Zhonia's and Abyssal for no good reason :p)
I have some doubts about Liandry's Torment: There is only one very specific game scenario I would ever buy this: it deals dmg over 3 seconds, you usually want to kill them within 1.5 seconds so it doesn't synergyze with the assassin route. Also it only works if you get Rylai's first, you only get it if you are against multiple tanky people with low MR. But if they are too tanky to assassinate I'd usually also want a Nashor's to burn through that HP, but that way I wouldn't really follow your assassination route anymore. If you are against tanks I think you should just get void to stay true with your assassination playstyle and keep your burst as high as possible. Not saying Liandry's is terrible, I just don't see myself buying it more than once every 1000 games if I'm playing burst Diana ;)

Oh, please don't use Moonfall in the jungle. If you position correctly you should be able to hit all monsters anyway, your e doesn't deal any damage, has a high cooldown so you can't gank directly afterward. It's just a waste of mana and cooldown to use it on monsters.

Maybe interesting to know: Diana automatically queues an AA after you ult, so as soon as you arrive you instantly AA the target. That is one reason why Lich Bane works so well :) Perhaps you could implement some more AA's in your combo's chapter :)

Oeh! I LOVE the video's section! It's super hard to explain exactly where to stand to reach the dragon, or the inhib, the video's are very clear and helpful! :D

Sorry if the negative points seem to overrule the positive, just keep in mind I really think your guide is great!
The lay-out is beautiful and clear, your playstyle is good with nearly all good runes/masteries/items :) the guide has good depth, solid argumentation and a lot of great tips to help newer players!
So good job and thanks! Even though I didn't learn anything new, it did help me reconsider many things I used to do :D

You can take this mastery and it fits Diana, but I think that Thunderlord's Decree is just superior. Stormraider's Surge synergizes with her, but its more situational than just straight extra damage from Thunderlord's Decree.

I would like to know your thoughts on storm serg masteri. It seems good for quick kills and safe escape.

For Diana jungle, get AS Quints, AP Blues (scaling or plain; you choose), Armor yellows and Mpen Reds. IMO it's ideal for me (I build her with APJunglerItem->Lich's->Boots->Rabadon->Nashor's/Zhonya's->Zhonya's/Nashor's) as I use AAs a lot but still build her full AP

I didnt shared calculations because there were some days among my experiments and the moment I wrote you. I've just forgotten some exact numbers. BTW, I also used this, though it's not absolutely correct (but it cleary shows how mpen is important):
http://www.leagueoflegendsmath.com/Item_Optimizer.html
Masteries and runes were all around AP, not AS. Mpen in pre-thunderlord mastery and mpen marks, AP quints.
AS is quite enough with Nashor's and devourer. And right, it was Sabre.

About your cons:
1. This one is right. Devourer is less usefull early.
But it is more usefull after that. It just depends on your aim: when do you want to become dangerous. Same with Yi, for example. You can pick warrior and gank few times pre-6 or pick devourer and sit more in the jungle, becoming that mid-lategame monster. (I know Yi sucks in high elo, it's just an example)
2. Oh, meta problems. There's nothing I can say :(
3. "less AP", well, only in earlygame. And you can still take zhonya, I wrote about it. No Mres... You're right, it sucks. You can just take some with blue runes :(
Or totally wreck enemy's APC and feel safe. Kinda..
4. Same about zhonya. You still can take it.
And, right, one more initiator is prefered. Support Alistar or toplaner Malph, for example. Not a problem, when you are in premade with someone.
5. This is sad. When you pick devourer you always have risk to become useless, when you're successfully counterjungled or your team is behind. Does it mean we should forget about this enchant? I don't think so. You just need to be prepared for these tricky lee sins, shakos nad nunus. And have a good team, which will not fall behind so easily. So, yes, devourer is bad, if you are not sure in your teammates or yourself. It's not for everyone. That makes my build worse. This is where I agree at all.

About this: "When you go full burst the chances to get countered are less likely, cause you can stand in the fog of war and basically press all buttons at the same time and the Q and Diana with ult arrive at the enemy at the same time."
That's right. As I wrote, chances to oneshot is higher with your build early. But in late AP is almost the same. Just count. It's even can be more, depends on your build path.
And with E you can almost always AA 2-3 times (in 1vs1 or more, if enemies have no CC/omm/on cd/etc), which makes burst higher.

About mana: with my phrase "mana is less needed" I meant that if you're oom you don't need to b immediately, you still can farm in jungle or even can kill drag solo (when sated or with mana for just one shield) or kill crab fast for more vision, wreck some towers, etc. Echoes is still better when you're oom, thats true.
This con is also becomes nothing with blue buff.
And echoes doesn't help in teamfights, mana is restoring only when you hit large monsters. So if you're oom in teamfight you're more likely to survial with devourer and AAs. [but I think it's a rare case when you fight oom, lol]
"using your spells more often -> more mana consumption" - only in teamfights. In the jungle you can use only shield (not early), so Diana is ok with mana im common. Especially with blue buff.


I've never recorded anything, but ok, will try, lol.
Though I don't play junglers in ranked, prefer top or mid. So, if I have to, I'll do this.

"A successful game doesn't mean a lot of kills" - yeah, I know. I usually don't have many kills, but my moves sometimes break teamfights and lead to win.

Btw, you wrote "not worth it". My friend told me the same yesterday, when I bought Zzrot as a second item playng as Shen on top in ranked. But this item won the game. We had enough time to destroy nexus just because of it and our enemies didn't have a chance to comeback (it literally lasthitted nexus).
It's a little thing, but the influence can be high.
I mean, every build is needed for something. All depends on your aim, your playstyle, your match-up, your mood, your in-game situation. We choose build due to all this, not vice versa.
Devourer is more risky, but risk is trembling (in a good way) and exiting.
I hope it's clear what I wanted to "say".

P.S. "yours idiot proof" - it's rude, senpai! T_T

Hey guys! I wanna join your conversation because i've been dealing with this issue for a while already. I think Ludens is better! Whats your thoughts on my statement? i can give you the math if needed :)

First of all, when you tell me that you used "MATH" you should share your calculations with me.
You miss quite a lot of detail here. What runes, masteries and jungler item do you use? I assume, since it fits your build, you will use attack speed runes and Skirmisher's Sabre (red Smite) as your jungler item. This leads to very few magic penetration, which can greatly diminish your damage output, especially for your spells, but also the magic damage from Nashor's Tooth and passive AA's will be less.

More and more cons:
- Damage spike with finished(not fully stacked) jungler item is much less - literally 0 extra AP (not including runes/masteries ofc) -> ony base damage from all spells.
- To really deal damage you require Sated Devourer, which takes a lot of extra time. Current meta doesn't really allow that, since games are much shorter.
- No defense -> less AP = less Shield, no extra MR or Armor since Zhonya's and Abyssal aren't core in your build.
- No Zhonya's Engage Combo!!! -> You need at least one more initiator if you don't get Zhonya's.
- When you fall behind, your screwed. A Devourer jungler that is behind or is in a team thats behind will just suck. You won't have time to get sated when you have to defend all the time.

Also I want to elaborate on two of your cons. Diana is very vulnerable to CC and also you will give the enemy the chance to counterplay in an extended fight. You are right that her kit is built to stick to your opponent, but when your CC'ed you can't use her kit. So the enemy could just stun you and flash away or something(that's just an example). When you go full burst the chances to get countered are less likely, cause you can stand in the fog of war and basically press all buttons at the same time and the Q and Diana with ult arrive at the enemy at the same time. A player with very good reaction can ofc also counter this, but its very less likely compared to a build that requires an extended fight. Another point you mentioned was the mana issues. It's correct that you have more mana problems because of the missing mana regen from Runic Echoes, but your deadly wrong, saying that less mana is needed. You will need QR and E if your enemy is trying to run away and W to avoid damage desperately. When you have no mana it's more likely that you will die than you will kill the enemy just with your AA's. Also building CDR basically means, using your spells more often -> more mana consumption.

With all that said, you CAN go that route and I want to see your success with your build. You can register at replay.gg and record your games. When you pulled of a ranked(!) game with your build that is worth watching, tell me and I'll review it. A successful game doesn't mean a lot of kills, cause stats don't win games. It can be splitpushing (which I imagine works quite well with your build) or good objective control. IMHO I think that your build is much harder to pull off and mine is compared to yours idiot proof. Your build just takes to long to be really effective and the chances to get outplayed are not worth it.

Thank you for the answers.
And, well, I see I need to explain why I asked about devourer. I just used THE MATH when think about what build is more suitable for this pretty girl. Let me explain why I dont think devourer is a bad idea.
[Disclaimer: I'm not trying to argue (you've got much more practical experience) or change your opinion, I just want to know am I right in something or not. It's important for me.]
Diana's passive in numbers is the most damaging thing in her kit with ~3 sec "cooldown" (staked devourer + nashor's). I think Rito kinda advise to build her also in AS-path by making this passive. You know, there are some roles for a lot (mb most) of champions in LoL, why Diana should be only one-shot assassin? Her kit is melee-orientated and made for melee trades. With Q+R she has two gap closers (or more than two when you fight for long time against tank/bruiser), so she can easily autoatack her target. Her CC-ability with "get over here!"(c) effect is made for autoatacking. Her shield allows her to fight in melee range and dont die instantly.
Soooo
One day I thought "Why not devourer?"
Pros:
1. Much more dps in long fights/taking objectives/pushing (she just MELT towers/inhibs/nexus in few seconds with full build, the damage is damn scary).
2. More useful for your team when oom or near for that.
3. Still a good assassin (almost the same damage for squishes with Q+W+R+AA).
4. You've got more discretion (or freehand, I dunno this phrase in eng) in the game due to more CDR (30% is minimum).
Cons:
1. More vulnerable against CC sometimes.
2. Less burst and a bit lower chance to "one-shot".
3. A bit less mana sustain due to lack of echos' passive (but mana is less needed).
4. A build is less flexible due to more core items.

Did I miss anything?
Do all the cons are really so crucial to think devourer is for fun only?
Hope you can waste some time for reading this and it's not annoyng to keep the conversation going ^^

And yeah, my build as something like sorc's+devourer+hashor's+lich bane+rabadon. 6th item can be zhonya's or luden's or something.
[btw, sorry for my Enlish, it's not my native]

That's totally fine. In an extended fight Challenging Smite will definitely save you from some damage of the enemy. You are going the route of the AA-based Diana, which is very common. It's just my personal preference to play her as "Full-Burst-Assassin"! :D