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[EUW] Inhouse Game Discussion - November

Creator: LevasK November 10, 2015 7:15am
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RottedApples
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You can't just blame everything on balance.

Everyone has good games, everyone has bad games.
Balancing does not take into account lanes, main champs, counters, etc. and it can't do it without predetermining who is going to play what before you get in game which is stupid and will likely make everyone not want to play.

There are examples of when balance means nothing in NA inhouses and I'm sure there are examples in EUW inhouses, and what i mean by that is that it doesn't matter how the game was balanced, that couldn't have been predicted...

You guys really just need to stop complaining about balance as if it is the end all be all solution to the problems.

"Balance is a fools master" - Zed

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GrandmasterD
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[deleted] wrote:
Alrighty, i'm seeing all the Regulars suggesting that referees do their jobs but here's a crazy thought perhaps be the change you want to see and become a REF seeing as you are the most qualified to do it. Right now only reason I can think of a reason not to do it is laziness.


Stop being helpful!!


[deleted] wrote:
Also thread gave some good chuckles so i suppose

RottedApples
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you know, i think GMD is secretly that laughing fish guy from the rito boards

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FalseoGod
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We've had a ****load of complaints about games being unbalanced and I think we've just got a bit further to understanding the why of all this.


I must disagree. Games are imbalanced because right up until friday we had people ranging literally from bronze 5 to master elo. It'll never feel trully balanced as long as this happens, but it shouldn't be seen as a problem. If such differences exist, hopefully the lower elo players can feel they're improving.

It happened to me. When I joined I was unranked, and having these gold, plat and finally diamond players always "ahead of me" helped me get where I am today. It's one of the reasons I both appreciate and fight for inhouses.

Quoted:
Furthermore, language issues. Right now, everyone insults everyone for the laughs. Apparently not everyone thinks that's funny. So I suggest that referees actively stop others from trashtalking even if it's meant as a joke and (of course) form an example in that themselves. It's a rather drastic change we'll have to bear with. Don't insult others in the lobby or in-game chat.


If we must, sure. It'll be a pain in particularly for me though (not even joking).


Quoted:
Finally, I think a lot of **** has gone down because there are way too much non-members in the games.


I think it's the opposite. To me, these people often help refresh the "Inhouse roster". Sure, we had some bad examples, but they were not allowed to return afterwards. The sole exception - yesterday - was a person that someone else said was not going to behave poorly again. I accept that people can improve their behavior (said person had been called toxic/rude in the past and is now pretty well behaved), but this did not happen with the player that joined. He will not join again in a foreseable future.


Quoted:
It's only logical that outsiders don't know of the rules or don't care about the rules. False also pointed out earlier today that they simply don't respect referees enough


What I said was refered to a particular context: winning a game. I've had randoms stay in line after being called to attention (or others who didn't, but this also happened with regulars), but asking someone "don't be a lane bully because your opponent dc'd and came late" has 0 to do with inhouse rules. It's all about player behavior; some are more competitive than others. It's sad that this player ruined a game, but they had the right to do so if they wanted to win the game.

Finally, I do believe "randoms" can be healthy for inhouses. We need "new blood", and if some of these people have fun playing and feel like joining more often (like Kyrano), this is good. It's actually how I became a ref: I'd find people in my list to join the games, we had our fun and then some stayed and some left. Some just join once in a while. I am actually 100% sure that the most toxic people to the inhouses have been a few of the regulars.

--//--

There will never be a full consensus of what inhouses are for. We cannot provide a 100% balanced environment or guarantee every game will be amazing fun. My goals are always to try and get people to enjoy themselves with as little stress as they can manage and, hopefully, feel like they are improving or being able to try new stuff.

This is not true for all refs (not a bad thing). It's also not true for all players (also not a bad thing). There are people out there who only have fun by winning. Even if we get every elo on par in lane, junglers and roams will probably tip the scales.

To conclude, I cannot stress this enough: if something is bothering you, if you feel there were poor behaviors or other stuff, use your voice. Comment, suggest, say what's bothering you. Don't keep it in and eventually leave without telling us what makes you think inhouses are not worth it or don't randomly explode and extrapolate things.
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[deleted]
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Stop being helpful!!





I retract my previous statement, new one follows

London is one hour ahead of the rest of England -Luther3000
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You can't just blame everything on balance.

Everyone has good games, everyone has bad games.
Balancing does not take into account lanes, main champs, counters, etc. and it can't do it without predetermining who is going to play what before you get in game which is stupid and will likely make everyone not want to play.

There are examples of when balance means nothing in NA inhouses and I'm sure there are examples in EUW inhouses, and what i mean by that is that it doesn't matter how the game was balanced, that couldn't have been predicted...

You guys really just need to stop complaining about balance as if it is the end all be all solution to the problems.


"Balance is a fools master" - Zed


Fool's* Fool!
Latest Legend
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Sure, I don't mind being a referee but I think it's good to discuss what a referee should be doing in the first place. Besides, I think we can all agree that having all regulars become referees isn't going to help either. We already have at least two referees in almost every game we play (Levas + Wayne/False).

We're not blaming everything on balance. Thanks for the input though.

FalseoGod wrote:
I must disagree. Games are imbalanced because right up until friday we had people ranging literally from bronze 5 to master elo. It'll never feel trully balanced as long as this happens, but it shouldn't be seen as a problem. If such differences exist, hopefully the lower elo players can feel they're improving.

It happened to me. When I joined I was unranked, and having these gold, plat and finally diamond players always "ahead of me" helped me get where I am today. It's one of the reasons I both appreciate and fight for inhouses.
Fair enough.

FalseoGod wrote:
If we must, sure. It'll be a pain in particularly for me though (not even joking).
Well I'm not saying we must but if more people see some potential in it I think we should give it a try. I mean, right now the lobby is literally a ****fest sometimes. I don't mind, you don't mind, but Vapora apparently does and chances are he's not the only one.

FalseoGod wrote:
I think it's the opposite. To me, these people often help refresh the "Inhouse roster". Sure, we had some bad examples, but they were not allowed to return afterwards. The sole exception - yesterday - was a person that someone else said was not going to behave poorly again. I accept that people can improve their behavior (said person had been called toxic/rude in the past and is now pretty well behaved), but this did not happen with the player that joined. He will not join again in a foreseable future.

What I said was refered to a particular context: winning a game. I've had randoms stay in line after being called to attention (or others who didn't, but this also happened with regulars), but asking someone "don't be a lane bully because your opponent dc'd and came late" has 0 to do with inhouse rules. It's all about player behavior; some are more competitive than others. It's sad that this player ruined a game, but they had the right to do so if they wanted to win the game.

Finally, I do believe "randoms" can be healthy for inhouses. We need "new blood", and if some of these people have fun playing and feel like joining more often (like Kyrano), this is good. It's actually how I became a ref: I'd find people in my list to join the games, we had our fun and then some stayed and some left. Some just join once in a while. I am actually 100% sure that the most toxic people to the inhouses have been a few of the regulars.
I understand and agree that "new blood" can definitely lead to great new friends, but I don't see why we *need* them. Like I said, one or two completely unfamiliar faces don't hurt, but if there are more it sometimes does. Like people not joining teamspeak. If a large amount of the lobby members have played in an inhouse one way or another, the randoms will be able to easier blend in. To clarify, if a "random" plays an inhouse game (s)he's no longer a random.

Alright, I guess I took the wrong conclusions regarding the "staying in line".

I think your points are valid. Just throwing my stuff out there for now. I feel the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle.
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i like to eat bananas
OTGBionicArm
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Embracing wrote:
i like to eat bananas

You leave Meijhye alone. :[
Thalia Kael
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Luther3000 wrote:
You do seem to have a few intelligence issues though. I said about five times before that happened that I didn't feel like playing to begin with, that was just the final straw. Kindly piss off with telling me what I did and why, not only am I much more aware of it than you possibly could be but it's completely irrelevant to anything.


You complained about having to face Vapora (his Lucian in particular) during the entirety of the draft and how it was ******** that you had to face him while he was tryharding. Then you left seconds after he picked Lucian. Not sure what other conclusions there were for me to draw from this. Also yeah you said you didn't feel like playing BECAUSE of the above.

Also joining games you don't plan to participate in to begin with and then *****ing sounds like something a person with intelligence issues would do. But since you come off as a very smart person I'm sure you would never do such a thing.

I have no issue with you (I've like never talked to you), I just think that it's a bit unfair for you to be a little ***** and then lie about it and try to make someone else look bad after when they call you out. What's done is done though, let's move on and focus on what matters right now.

Also I think it is relevant because it seems like some people have an issue with others trying hard to win, which is an issue that needs to be resolved ASAP or it will cause players to quit for extended periods of time (happened multiple times in NA inhouses because of tryhard vs play for fun conflicts).

But anyway, I'll join you guys on fridays if Joxxu/Vapora don't mind me borrowing a smurf. I'll eventually buy an EUW account anyway since my ping is pretty stable at 105.

As for the balancing issue, we had huge problems with 1-2 high elos on each team just stomping the lower elo players on NA. AFAIK we never resolved the issue, some people suggested that we pair up the higher elo players in the same lane but as Rotted said it's a terrible idea because it forces certain people into playing a role they probably don't want to play and if the people paired with eachother main different lanes, one of the high elo's will get beaten and the other will still get fed. Also let's say I can only play one or two mid laners and I'm being forced to mid lane and my 2 mids are banned, I'm stuck picking a champion I don't play.

For games with only 1 or 2 high elo per team, we can't account for the chance of a diamond losing lane to a gold (negating the fact that he's supposed to balance out the other diamond who is stomping his lane) and the other team stomping.

For balance, I think it's less of an issue of lower elos not wanting to play vs higher elos than the games being incredibly boring because of being one-sided stomps.

If people would rather be with their friend or rather not be on the same team as someone, I think that if accommodations can be made without having the exact same teams as the previous games or causing balance issues it's fine. If it would cause balance issues however, tough luck.

I'd help balance since I have a lot of experience on NA inhouses but I've barely played with any of you so I can't gauge your skill level through anything but your rank (Vapora is Master but plays like a Bronze 5) so I'm not sure I'd be much help.

As far as randoms go, as long as they obey the referees they're fine by me but I've experience many a ruined game because of them so it can be pretty hit or miss. I'd say max 4 randoms, preferably 2. If you need more than that to start a lobby just do a 5-man normal or ranked 5s.

For BM/Trashtalking, I think that the change suggested by Latest Legend is a bit drastic, trashtalking is one of the best parts of inhouses imo (as long as it's all in good fun). I know some of you thought I was being a bit extreme on the 20th but I really hope nobody was offended by me saying things that amount to "GET REKT EU SCRUBS" or typing "NA FIZZ" in all-chat every time Latest Legend would miss his ult after the 5th time and the various jokes targeted at Levask and Falseogod. Other than that I pretty must just said that I was the best player there and that my team was stacked because they had me. What I'm trying to say is that harmless trashtalking like this should be acceptable, but if it really bothers someone for whatever reason then there's no harm in not bothering said person. However, downright harassment shouldn't be tolerated. (AKA "blow me kid" "no I won't stop being an *******" "you're so ****ing dumb" "go kill yourself" "autistic white trash ****** kha'zix" etc.)

But I really think that the nature (tryhard vs not tryhard) of the inhouses should be determined ASAP by a debate or a vote so people can know what to expect when they join. We've had well-known members and regulars quit for a long time because of conflicts like this on NA.


But anyway, I'll join you guys on fridays if Joxxu/Vapora don't mind me borrowing a smurf. I'll eventually buy an EUW account anyway since my ping is pretty stable at 105.
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