7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=luizdeh][quote=Cooper112] Right now i would run hybird pen marks, armor yellow, flat ap blues and flat ap quints and prob 21 in offensive since you dont really need utility any more since the ap gold income item gives so much. [/quote] The utility tree isn't there just for the gold you know?[/quote]

[quote=Cooper112][quote=luizdeh] [quote=Cooper112] Right now i would run hybird pen marks, armor yellow, flat ap blues and flat ap quints and prob 21 in offensive since you dont really need utility any more since the ap gold income item gives so much. [/quote] The utility tree isn't there just for the gold you know? [/quote] Thats its primary use... idk what kinda points your going for most common utility build is gold gen with some cdr which is in offensive. Off you do more dmg have most burst in lane and can dominate lane more. Utility You move faster get more gold but i find you get more gold from just running offensive and dominating lane.[/quote]

[quote=AngGod]You forgot [[Evelynn]] she is easily a tier 1 jungler right now[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Cooper112] [quote=luizdeh] [quote=Cooper112] Right now i would run hybird pen marks, armor yellow, flat ap blues and flat ap quints and prob 21 in offensive since you dont really need utility any more since the ap gold income item gives so much. [/quote] The utility tree isn't there just for the gold you know? [/quote] Thats its primary use. [/quote] Nope. Utility goes a lot further than simply giving a little bit extra gold and some movement speed. It also gives CDR (also for summoners and actives, which is really important for lower [[flash]] cd), improved potions (which is really good if you pop it in the beginning of a fight) and some mana regen. A lot of perks in offense aren't that good early game (% ap increase, % armor/magic pen, scaling AP) which aren't that useful on a support.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]Holy shit this thread moved fast while I was at school. Guess thats just the majority of you guys being EU? :P Anyway I'll give my opinion on major things. Nerfs to Annie didn't hit her in support too much. She still has an on demand ranged stun starting from level 1, and ridiculous scaling with any AP at all. Is she better than morg? Hard to say. I think so. DFG annie destroys anybody without a negatron cloak item. Anyone without MR also takes huge damage from frost queen's claim annie. The elise nerfs were pretty bad. 1 second stun for most of the game hurts a lot, especially against champs who run 21 defense tree and or build tenacity. Vi nerfs didn't do too much. Nautilus is still bad. Reason being he is probably the worst jungler thats even remotely viable when he gets counterganked. No shield Nautilus does absolutely no damage at all. That is why he is bad, not because he has a slow jungle and is prone to counterjungle. (Although that obviously doesn't help at all). Aatrox is a huge pubstomper if the enemy doesn't know you are useless without your passive. Problem is if they know and keep popping it, you become useless. Eve is not a tier 1 jungler. I run 9-21-0 on supports, but I mainly only play thresh. There are a lot of various rune and mastery setups on supports that are viable.[/quote]

[quote=Cooper112][quote=Vynertje] [quote=Cooper112] [quote=luizdeh] [quote=Cooper112] Right now i would run hybird pen marks, armor yellow, flat ap blues and flat ap quints and prob 21 in offensive since you dont really need utility any more since the ap gold income item gives so much. [/quote] The utility tree isn't there just for the gold you know? [/quote] Thats its primary use. [/quote] Nope. Utility goes a lot further than simply giving a little bit extra gold and some movement speed. It also gives CDR (also for summoners and actives, which is really important for lower [[flash]] cd), improved potions (which is really good if you pop it in the beginning of a fight) and some mana regen. A lot of perks in offense aren't that good early game (% ap increase, % armor/magic pen, scaling AP) which aren't that useful on a support. [/quote] Dude if 21 off was not that useful as support top supports would not be running it. Im not saying its good on most or any supports besides annie but on annie its used alot.[/quote]

[quote=Cooper112][quote=H4xDefender] Holy shit this thread moved fast while I was at school. Guess thats just the majority of you guys being EU? :P Anyway I'll give my opinion on major things. Nerfs to Annie didn't hit her in support too much. She still has an on demand ranged stun starting from level 1, and ridiculous scaling with any AP at all. Is she better than morg? Hard to say. I think so. DFG annie destroys anybody without a negatron cloak item. Anyone without MR also takes huge damage from frost queen's claim annie. The elise nerfs were pretty bad. 1 second stun for most of the game hurts a lot, especially against champs who run 21 defense tree and or build tenacity. Vi nerfs didn't do too much. Nautilus is still bad. Reason being he is probably the worst jungler thats even remotely viable when he gets counterganked. No shield Nautilus does absolutely no damage at all. That is why he is bad, not because he has a slow jungle and is prone to counterjungle. (Although that obviously doesn't help at all). Aatrox is a huge pubstomper if the enemy doesn't know you are useless without your passive. Problem is if they know and keep popping it, you become useless. Eve is not a tier 1 jungler. I run 9-21-0 on supports, but I mainly only play thresh. There are a lot of various rune and mastery setups on supports that are viable. [/quote] Why is eve not tier 1? She can fill role of most junglers shes can build anything if she snowballs she can keep going dmg if team needs a tank just get elder lizard then go full tank. Nothing against you i just question some of your rankings most of all mundo being tier 1 most top laners i heard say mundo is not that good any more. I kinda like this tier list but has less champs in it. [url=http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/solo-tier-list/27662-solo-queue-tier-list-velkoz-era-patch-4-4]list[/url][/quote]

[quote=SpawnOfHell]Eve is fragile as f*ck early game, her first clear takes off too much health, she falls apart to counterganks, her ganks honestly aren't that good without red or ult because of her lack of CC and she is pretty item dependent to boot. Not to say she isn't good but she has a lot of weaknesses to keep her down. Can't say much for Mundo but every one I've seen has been on the winning team and they've definitely contributed with their tankiness and damage.[/quote]

[quote=Cooper112][quote=SpawnOfHell] Eve is fragile as f*ck early game, her first clear takes off too much health, she falls apart to counterganks, her ganks honestly aren't that good without red or ult because of her lack of CC and she is pretty item dependent to boot. Not to say she isn't good but she has a lot of weaknesses to keep her down. Can't say much for Mundo but every one I've seen has been on the winning team and they've definitely contributed with their tankiness and damage. [/quote] Most of best junglers now are fragile.... wukong, pantheon, kha are more assassins not really that tanky ether kha needs his ult to not get blown up same as eve. Hes better tho just because he brings most dmg and is more mobile but eve is still good tier 1. Tanks have moved to top lane. Jungle is no longer for the tanks. Tho that could change.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]I mean, lee sin has such good base damages from his spells in the early-mid game, that he can almost just build two doran's blades into full tank items. Cooper 224 is right though. Most tanky junglers have fallen out of favor for junglers with higher damage capabilities[/quote]