whatever they are planning on doing should stop. They always tunnel vision certain champions and not think of it as how will this affect jungle clear times.
As it is.. some of the fastest junglers like olaf and udyr will finish the jungle 2-3 times faster if they make the jungle easier (not sure about olaf though because he needs low health). But def udyr. So after they change the jungle and find out that this certain champion is faster in the jungle they will nerf him (again tunnel vision on that champion in the jungle and they do not realise how it will affect his teamfights etc)
Tbh I think Guinsoo is playing on summoner level 20, because level 30 junglers have more options than just idle in the jungle and gank, yes they have another option which is to hold a lane whilst your team mate recalls, or help push a tower.
Bad move riot, dont you dare change how the jungle is right now.
As it is.. some of the fastest junglers like olaf and udyr will finish the jungle 2-3 times faster if they make the jungle easier (not sure about olaf though because he needs low health). But def udyr. So after they change the jungle and find out that this certain champion is faster in the jungle they will nerf him (again tunnel vision on that champion in the jungle and they do not realise how it will affect his teamfights etc)
Tbh I think Guinsoo is playing on summoner level 20, because level 30 junglers have more options than just idle in the jungle and gank, yes they have another option which is to hold a lane whilst your team mate recalls, or help push a tower.
Bad move riot, dont you dare change how the jungle is right now.
Bloofyre
<Member>
<Member>
Are they gonna make it more effective gold or experience wise?
I can almost keep up with the sololanes if I don't gank. I think I could outlevel and outfarm a sololane if they buff it enough >:D
I can almost keep up with the sololanes if I don't gank. I think I could outlevel and outfarm a sololane if they buff it enough >:D
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
Xenasis
<Member>
<Member>
Temzilla wrote:
Actually...
Bottom lane support buys gp10 because they don't farm, not because they are using that money to buy tons of wards.
I didn't say that warding was the reason they got GP10 items, I just said that they support it.
@caucheka -
Vision is not useless. Neither are supports. There's a reason that the support/AD lane is so strong - even without the support farming.
In most high level games, supports will only ever buy GP10 items, wards, boots, and occasionally one or two aura items late game. This doesn't mean they're useless, and you'd be a fool to think so. You don't need items to make Janna's Q last longer, or her R blow people back further, or her shield give people more AD.
About counterjungling:
I'm on Jun's side. Counter jungling is VERY binary gameplay; it's incredibly difficult to pull off early in some instances (see: stealing their blue buff early, in most scenarios), and extremely easy in other scenarios (see: consume stealing wraiths). Moreover, it's almost useless to try and counter jungle post-level 4 because the creeps aren't exactly vital to the jungler later on, but counter jungling pre-4 is often detrimental enough (even the simple counter jungling, like wraith stealing) that the jungler might even have to steal some creeps from the lane if necessary.
Regarding the changes in general:
I like them. As a frequent jungler, I can attest to the fact that virtually ALL champs have some sort of very difficult aspect to them, which I find totally unnecessary. For example - I have two friends who are about summoner level 25. They have most of the runes necessary to jungle (but not all). They frequently ask me "should I jungle X champion?" and it's very hard for me to come up with a good list of champions that they should learn to jungle with because no champions have a simple enough jungle. Believe me, even the easy junglers have difficulties.
Nunu? Takes a suboptimal item build unless you're an experienced/fully runed jungler.
Trundle? His mid-game is VERY difficult to itemize for, because you need to know whether to build damage or tankiness at that specific moment. Additionally, he's a lot more reliant on farm than many champions, so he's got to take wraiths/wolves/mini golems a lot more.
Warwick? His ganks are very difficult pre-6, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt them. Knowing when to gank and when to rush level 6 is vital, and balancing these two takes quite a bit of experience with warwick.
Olaf? He's really susceptible to counter-jungle and VERY reliant on runes, so he needs to complete a very quick jungle route and gank fast to compensate. Moreover, he revolves entirely around landing more than one Undertow in rapid succession (and believe me, unexperienced players do NOT grasp this concept).
Lee Sin? Despite being a great jungler, his ganks aren't fantastic and he should rely mostly on being the new nunu, counterjungling like a boss. This isn't too easy for most junglers to get early on.
I could keep going on, but I think I've made my point - junglers, in order to be used competently, almost ALL have some very difficult skill that needs to be mastered. Now for those of you who say, "yeah, but all champs/lanes/roles are like that!" this is much more exclusive; that is, not only are less champs able to jungle with few hitches with a less-experienced jungler, but also all the skills required to jungle are more necessary to its role. Completing an entire route and ganking and keeping up levels and all that jazz are necessary to jungle well; at lower levels, last hitting can be more or less accomplished at an equal level to your competitor by just lazily auto-attacking. In the jungle, your competitors are the creeps, and thus a standard of skill is demanded. That standard is much higher than that of the lane, and much higher than the average unexperienced jungler can compare to.
That being said, they'll have to tread carefully: some currently good champs in the jungle may end up being unstoppable in the jungle.
I'm on Jun's side. Counter jungling is VERY binary gameplay; it's incredibly difficult to pull off early in some instances (see: stealing their blue buff early, in most scenarios), and extremely easy in other scenarios (see: consume stealing wraiths). Moreover, it's almost useless to try and counter jungle post-level 4 because the creeps aren't exactly vital to the jungler later on, but counter jungling pre-4 is often detrimental enough (even the simple counter jungling, like wraith stealing) that the jungler might even have to steal some creeps from the lane if necessary.
Regarding the changes in general:
I like them. As a frequent jungler, I can attest to the fact that virtually ALL champs have some sort of very difficult aspect to them, which I find totally unnecessary. For example - I have two friends who are about summoner level 25. They have most of the runes necessary to jungle (but not all). They frequently ask me "should I jungle X champion?" and it's very hard for me to come up with a good list of champions that they should learn to jungle with because no champions have a simple enough jungle. Believe me, even the easy junglers have difficulties.
Nunu? Takes a suboptimal item build unless you're an experienced/fully runed jungler.
Trundle? His mid-game is VERY difficult to itemize for, because you need to know whether to build damage or tankiness at that specific moment. Additionally, he's a lot more reliant on farm than many champions, so he's got to take wraiths/wolves/mini golems a lot more.
Warwick? His ganks are very difficult pre-6, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt them. Knowing when to gank and when to rush level 6 is vital, and balancing these two takes quite a bit of experience with warwick.
Olaf? He's really susceptible to counter-jungle and VERY reliant on runes, so he needs to complete a very quick jungle route and gank fast to compensate. Moreover, he revolves entirely around landing more than one
Undertow in rapid succession (and believe me, unexperienced players do NOT grasp this concept).Lee Sin? Despite being a great jungler, his ganks aren't fantastic and he should rely mostly on being the new nunu, counterjungling like a boss. This isn't too easy for most junglers to get early on.
I could keep going on, but I think I've made my point - junglers, in order to be used competently, almost ALL have some very difficult skill that needs to be mastered. Now for those of you who say, "yeah, but all champs/lanes/roles are like that!" this is much more exclusive; that is, not only are less champs able to jungle with few hitches with a less-experienced jungler, but also all the skills required to jungle are more necessary to its role. Completing an entire route and ganking and keeping up levels and all that jazz are necessary to jungle well; at lower levels, last hitting can be more or less accomplished at an equal level to your competitor by just lazily auto-attacking. In the jungle, your competitors are the creeps, and thus a standard of skill is demanded. That standard is much higher than that of the lane, and much higher than the average unexperienced jungler can compare to.
That being said, they'll have to tread carefully: some currently good champs in the jungle may end up being unstoppable in the jungle.
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