On the subject of Warwick.

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Mooninites]I guess skarner and malzahar are broken as fuck too /s[/quote]Malzahar's and Skarner's ult are both pretty powerful tho, at least in my experience. The difference is though, that Warwick can make much more use out of his ult. He can easily pick up people that are out of position due to his E, can make it even easier to catch up with the new smite and his ult doesn't only deal damage but also grant survivability. Malzahar moves too slow to be able to do awesome ganks and as his ult will most likely be interupted during teamfights (or even better, gets killed during ult), thus it has a lot less use than Warwicks ult has. Skarners ult is great and all but relies a lot on his allies when using it as Skarner's ult is mainly used for getting people out of position by supressing and dragging them for 1,75 seconds. It barely deals damage nor does it give sustain like Warwicks ult does. As this ult can also be managed by other spells than just heavy CC (like slows or walls) AND relies on the presence of your allies, it is outclassed by Warwicks ult. Besides that, Warwick is able to be scary even when his ult is on CD, whereas Skarner and Malzahar much less so. In my experience anyway.[/quote]

[quote=HiFromBuddha]If memory serves (don't quote me on this (inb4 someone quotes this comment)), QSS just removes the suppression part of [[Infinite Duress]]. I believe the ridiculous damage still goes through. (Unless QSS removes the smite bonus from [[Skirmisher's Sabre]])[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Mooninites] I guess skarner and malzahar are broken as fuck too /s[/quote] As mentioned, [[warwick]] applies on-hit damage and heals from his ultimate too. [[skarner]]'s ult doesn't produce 100-0 damage and [[malzahar]] is squishy, meaning that he can't just arbitrarily ult someone like [[warwick]] can and survive to tell the tale. [[warwick]] is a lot harder to kill by virtue of building tanky and being able to heal off his ultimate. In other words, the main difference is the level of counterplay. [[skarner]] requires a team in order to complete the kill and [[malzahar]] immobilizes himself during ultimate, which is never a good thing for a carry to do. You have to look at the ability in the context of kit and champion. We're talking about a tanky champion who can also 100-0 a lot of other champions with little to no counterplay. And we haven't even begun to talk about his sustain in the jungle whilst many other junglers are suffering from it. [quote=jhoijhoi] He doesn't 100-0 tanky members. And if you're by yourself when there IS a WW running around that can 100-0 a tanky member, isn't it your fault for being caught?[/quote] Instant gap closer that's point and click with what is established as little to no counterplay can be avoided by warding, but it's still pretty bullshit that you're forced to run away because you already know you can't duel a [[warwick]] when has ult up. And I don't think you're quite seeing the problem. When [[warwick]] hits level 6, he can already [[smite]]-R-Q for an instant kill, even on supposedly tanky top laners who haven't built many items yet. [quote=jhoijhoi]But suppose it's a 5v5 fight and WW ults your squishy team member - like I said, any sort of CC can rescue them. OR appropriate items, such as Mikael's/Locket. OR a summoner spell like Heal/Exhaust.[/quote] In a 5v5 it's a lot more easier to deal with a [[warwick]] (which is why he wouldn't arbitrarily initiate), but that's not the issue I'm highlighting. The issue is that you're basically forced to have another team member or be a tank/offtank or build a QSS just in order not to be killed by a stray wolf. That's a whole lot of pressure just by picking the champion. That's a lot of pressure during the laning phase after he hits 6. [quote=jhoijhoi]And if all that fails, what about an AP carry just 100-0'ing the WW? Like Veigar. I mean, Veigar requires at least 1 other person than yourself to deal with. And that person needs some sort of CC that prevents Veigar from Q-Ulting you in less than half a second. Or, if you're by yourself, you could have some sort of item like QSS to get out of his stun wall... But maybe we're talking about CC that can't be escaped because it lasts forever and does a lot of damage? Just get Malzahar to CC and 100-0 the WW. Easy. [/quote] Sorry, this was a bit silly imo, especially when you say 'easy'. First of all, you're comparing a non-skillshot champion to a champion who integrally requires you to land a stun that's a skillshot. So let's see the situation about [[veigar]]/[[warwick]]. If [[veigar]] misses his stun, he can die because he squishy, even if he [[zhonya's hourglass]] or [[archangel's staff]]. Meanwhile, the [[warwick]] who has built a [[banshee's veil]] or even [[spirit visage]] or some other magic resist item can't miss or die to [[veigar]] no matter what. So if [[veigar]] misses the stun, [[warwick]] will kill him. [[warwick]] can't miss, so [[veigar]] is dead. Even if [[veigar]] stuns him, [[warwick]] can heal right back up by ulting [[veigar]]. Same applies to [[malzahar]]. You're asking AP carries to 100-0 an innately tanky champion who can also kill you just by clicking a button. That just sounds absurd. I can guarantee you that [[veigar]] won't be able to kill a [[warwick]] with respective items bought for respective gold (as a jungler) as a [[warwick]] can for a [[veigar]]. And the problem of being forced into QSS has already been covered, more so if you're an AP carry, since QSS only builds into an AD item.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Not quite sure why people are surprised Warwick is bullshit right now. The part of his kits that are obviously broken right now have always been that way. This meta simply favors the parts of his kit that weren't previously favored, his sustain and farm to level 6 nature. I also don't know why [[Malzahar]] or [[Skarner]] are being compared because they act entirely different, build entirely different and generally aren't very consistent like Warwick is, even when he's "bad". There's a very good reason that [[Warwick]] sat around 52-53% win rate for the entire time of season 4, when he was considered mediocre. That reason is consistency. His ult is simply very good at making catches, and is on a low ass cooldown. Malz and Skarner's ults are on comparitively higher cooldowns and require much more interaction to actually pull them off (Warwick needs only to click a guy and rake them, Skarner has to manually walk up to said guy, and Malzahar has to not only set his combo up correctly, but also hope he doesn't get demolished by another person nearby).[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=OTGBionicArm]Not quite sure why people are surprised Warwick is bullshit right now. The part of his kits that are obviously broken right now have always been that way. This meta simply favors the parts of his kit that weren't previously favored, his sustain and farm to level 6 nature.[/quote] Yeah, I don't know why anyone has to be explaining it right now, tbh, but for some reason, here we are :S[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]This is exactly what happened with [[Soraka]] in season 4. Except I doubt they'll just give [[Warwick]] the [[Evelynn]] treatment until they figure out how to make him balanced like they did with [[Soraka]], which is honestly pretty bullshit imo, but whatever.[/quote]

[quote=Hatted]If you're a smart Jax and you see a Warwick while you're low all ya need to do is press E. Jax's E blocks all the damage from the ult then stuns and puts you on top of the fight, which you will typically win.[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]First time [[warwick]] in a season, if not in two seasons. Farmed own jungle. Crossed the river. Killed [[udyr]]. Farmed their jungle. Some [[Infinite Duress]] here and there and clicked Continue when prompted. Rito wai.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Hatted]If you're a smart Jax and you see a Warwick while you're low all ya need to do is press E. Jax's E blocks all the damage from the ult then stuns and puts you on top of the fight, which you will typically win.[/quote] Thank you for that wonderful piece of insight.[/quote]

[quote=Slappiz]Warwick is 100% banned in pretty much all divisions atm. Riot plz make that ultimate a skillshot leap or something. It makes no sense with a teleporting Werewolf.[/quote]