OTG's SoloQ Tier List (Patch 4.20)

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=RottedApples]no love for [[taric]] QQ[/quote] That's because he's tier 46. I can honestly say that he's the worst champion in the League right now.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=RottedApples]no love for [[taric]] QQ[/quote]that's because [[Taric]] is tier 46[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Tier 46? Perfect for UOL! :D[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=XeresAce]Zyra at the very bottom of tier 2 support? No. [[Sona]], [[Lulu]], [[karma]], [[Vel'Koz]] and arguably [[leona]] are all weaker than zyra atm from my experience. Leona - She feels kinda clunky right now and with supports like Morgana, Janna, Thresh and Nami at the top her strongest feature (decent engage and 19 year lockdown) goes down the drain pretty easily. [/quote] It's true that [[leona]] is weaker with the advent of [[morgana]], [[janna]] and [[nami]], but post level 3, [[leona]] is still much stronger than [[zyra]] just because [[zyra]] doesn't afford her team-mates the same mobility and defence that the other 3 do ([[morgana]] grants CC immunity and a magic shield, [[janna]] grants extra MS, heal and a shield, [[nami]] grants MS and heal). [[zyra]] can match [[leona]] ultimate for ultimate, but [[leona]] still has far more kill potential than [[zyra]] is usually able to peel, plus her abilities bar ultimate are virtually all skillshots.[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce]^ I never said zyra was stronger than morgana janna or nami? I never implied that zyra is better than these supports just because she can win lane against them... Btw, for future reference, Leona = zyra in lane. It's a matchup dependent on skill with a slight hint towards Leona's favor. Leona's E and Ult are also skillshots, nami's Q and ult too, janna Q... I don't see how that matters. Also, assuming her ult is up, zyra can counter-engage vs a leona pretty well later on in the game.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=XeresAce]^ I never said zyra was stronger than morgana janna or nami? I never implied that zyra is better than these supports just because she can win lane against them... Btw, for future reference, Leona = zyra in lane. It's a matchup dependent on skill with a slight hint towards Leona's favor. Leona's E and Ult are also skillshots, nami's Q and ult too, janna Q... I don't see how that matters. Also, assuming her ult is up, zyra can counter-engage vs a leona pretty well later on in the game.[/quote] True, that also would be a stupid thing to do. Regarding the [[Leona]] vs. [[Zyra]] matchup; [[zyra]] has to grab a good advantage pre-6 because in lane there's not much she can do against that ult. Yes later on her ultimate counters [[Leona]] engages pretty well, but if she gets [[Solar Flare]]d in the lane, then she's just dead.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]If this is for solo queue I'd probably re-arrange some things. Hypercarries are generally really strong in solo queue because people dont know how to close out games effectively, and so are lane bullies because well, people don't know how to play against them. I probably wouldn't consider [[kog'maw]] tier 1 just because he's easy to catch out and relies on protection and positioning. I probably would rate [[Vayne]] and [[Caitlyn]] higher simply because vayne is hard for solo queue to shut down and caitlyn is a massive lane bully. I'd probably put ezreal in tier 3 or 4, he's got really low damage and requires to be ahead. Compare that to [[Miss Fortune]] who is a massive lane bully and has a really good AoE ult. She's probably much better in solo queue than she is competitive play. As far as supports, play-making supports are strictly better. I would probably rate [[leona]] and [[zyra]] much higher because they can make big plays. [[Zyra]] just brings so much damage, as far as the debate on who is better than who; I feel like [[zyra]] is more individual skill based than other supports. If you're really good at Zyra then you can dominate a game and pretty much single-handidly strangle the map, but if you're not she's extremely underwhelming. It's all in how you play her. Also blitzcrank in tier 3 for solo queue seems low. He should probably be near the bottom of Tier 2, he just has a lot of game-changing potential that thrives in solo queue In mid lane, [[yasuo]] is an extremely strong champion and still really good in solo queue, but he relies on his teammates a lot to use his ultimate in team fights that inherently makes him weaker in solo queue, although hes probably still tier 1. I'd probably rate [[fizz]], [[ahri]], and [[twisted fate]] a lot higher. These champions really come down to individual skill (especially in TF's case) but fizz and ahri are really strong assassins that snowball hard. TF can have an impact across the map and has a lot of pressure which makes him strong, I'd personally bump Ahri and Fizz to Tier 1. In the jungle [[lee sin]] is definitely tier 1. [[amumu]] probably should be higher in tier 2. Skarner probably not tier 2 material In top lane [[nidalee]] got base damage nerfs across the board, that will affect her, although I'm not sure it makes her Tier 2, still really good. I probably wouldn't consider [[Irelia]] tier 1 in solo queue, jax is much more reliable in solo queue imo. Extreme lane bullies like [[renekton]] and [[riven]] should probably be higher just my 2 cents[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Mooninites]If this is for solo queue I'd probably re-arrange some things. Hypercarries are generally really strong in solo queue because people dont know how to close out games effectively, and so are lane bullies because well, people don't know how to play against them.[/quote] Doesn't make too much of a difference, except maybe for the super soloq champs such as Yi, Shaco, etc. [quote=Mooninites] I probably wouldn't consider [[kog'maw]] tier 1 just because he's easy to catch out and relies on protection and positioning. I probably would rate [[Vayne]] and [[Caitlyn]] higher simply because vayne is hard for solo queue to shut down and caitlyn is a massive lane bully.[/quote] Assuming the player plays well, Kog is still really good in soloq. It's more about positioning and less about massive protection. Once Kog reaches two items he can actually stand up to a lot of champions; he's less vulnerable than you might think. [[Vayne]] just requires too much hand-holding in the laning phase to be really good. Like if your support isn't decent enough to control the lane properly, then you simply won't get farm against the majority of the ad carries and supports [quote=Mooninites]I'd probably put ezreal in tier 3 or 4, he's got really low damage and requires to be ahead. Compare that to [[Miss Fortune]] who is a massive lane bully and has a really good AoE ult. She's probably much better in solo queue than she is competitive play.[/quote] I dunno. I feel like [[Ezreal]] is decent enough in soloq due to the fact that he's so safe. Once he gets going he's hard to shut down, and that's valuable in soloq. On MF I simply don't know what to say; I never see her. [quote=Mooninites]As far as supports, play-making supports are strictly better. I would probably rate [[leona]] and [[zyra]] much higher because they can make big plays. [[Zyra]] just brings so much damage, as far as the debate on who is better than who; I feel like [[zyra]] is more individual skill based than other supports. If you're really good at Zyra then you can dominate a game and pretty much single-handidly strangle the map, but if you're not she's extremely underwhelming. It's all in how you play her.[/quote] Agreed. Although my experience would state that both [[Vel'Koz]] and [[Karma]] fit the same play style. Just group them together and put them somewhere in tier 2 and you're good. They've slightly different qualities but they're about the same; they can literally win entire fights on their own (yes even [[Karma]]). [quote=Mooninites]Also blitzcrank in tier 3 for solo queue seems low. He should probably be near the bottom of Tier 2, he just has a lot of game-changing potential that thrives in solo queue[/quote] Top tier 3 or bottom tier 2, but not any higher. Has severe flaws, his major one being that he offers almost no pressure or zone control the lane. He also brings no pushing power. Honestly, unless you're a god at Blitz, I suggest to just not play him, there's a better version of him anyway. :^) [quote=Mooninites]In mid lane, [[yasuo]] is an extremely strong champion and still really good in solo queue, but he relies on his teammates a lot to use his ultimate in team fights that inherently makes him weaker in solo queue, although hes probably still tier 1.[/quote] Good [[Yasuo]] players don't require knock ups from a team to be strong. [[Yasuo]] is a godlike mid-laner and one of the first to recommend if someone would ask me for a mid-laner who can carry. [quote=Mooninites]I'd probably rate [[fizz]], [[ahri]], and [[twisted fate]] a lot higher. These champions really come down to individual skill (especially in TF's case) but fizz and ahri are really strong assassins that snowball hard. TF can have an impact across the map and has a lot of pressure which makes him strong, I'd personally bump Ahri and Fizz to Tier 1. [/quote] [[Fizz]] and [[Ahri]] are solid tier 2 champions, about mid to high. The reason for this is that they struggle with some matchups, and turn utterly useless when they fall really behind. They thrive on the ability to insta-kill opponents, and if they lose that; they stop being relevant. TF suffers from having a variety of problematic matchups. Skilled TF players can make most work, but considering what's popular ([[Syndra]], [[Xerath]], [[Zed]]) I wouldn't really put him that high. I mean, he will always require a team to work with. [quote=Mooninites]In the jungle [[lee sin]] is definitely tier 1. [[amumu]] probably should be higher in tier 2. Skarner probably not tier 2 material[/quote] Lee is 100% tier 1, no questions asked. [[Amumu]] can stick around in tier 2, but low tier 2. His problem is that his late-game is nothing but having an ultimate, which is poor. On top of that, his itemisation is awkward and he's very, very, very prone to jungle invades. [quote=Mooninites]In top lane [[nidalee]] got base damage nerfs across the board, that will affect her, although I'm not sure it makes her Tier 2, still really good. I probably wouldn't consider [[Irelia]] tier 1 in solo queue, jax is much more reliable in solo queue imo.[/quote] [[Jax]] is hardly reliable; he's really bad. His problem is that he gets dumpstered in lane by almost all tier 1 & 2 champions, which is a really bad feature. On top of that, there's jungle ganks and roaming mid-laners. He's like [[Nasus]] with less consistency but higher power spikes. On [[Nidalee]] I'm not sure how these nerfs affect here, I suppose time will tell. [[Irelia]] is crazy, both in solo- and arranged queue. She requires one item to completely dominate and is probably one of the best champion to shut down carries such as [[Tristana]]. [[Irelia]] wins games, and is one of the best top laners in the meta game. [quote=Mooninites]Extreme lane bullies like [[renekton]] and [[riven]] should probably be higher just my 2 cents[/quote] [[Renekton]] just falls off really hard now. He can't deal with the long-ranged ad carries, and well, with their "new" items they can deal with him by themselves after about 2-3 items. Also, the [[Teleport]] meta kinda ruins his style, as enemies can easily go back to power up. Additionally, [[Ryze]] is very popular.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=GrandmasterD]Amumu can stick around in tier 2, but low tier 2. His problem is that his late-game is nothing but having an ultimate, which is poor. On top of that, his itemisation is awkward and he's very, very, very prone to jungle invades.[/quote] WTH I got to read here? There is a reason why [[Amumu]] has and will forever have one of the highest winrates in solo queue. First thing is, many people underestimate [[amumu]] early so badly and pay for that, he has a fast clear with good sustain thanks to his E damage reduction. Of course, dueling is not really good, but he has some tricks to survive most situations. The main part for [[amumu]] is the lategame anyway, in which he shines. Calling him only an ult-bot is ridiculous, considering how high is damage is and how high it can actually scale. He can freely build between full AP burst and full tank depending on the situation he is in and a good [[amumu]] player will know when to get which. And [[amumu]] with at least some AP is definitly not only an ult-bot, he tears teams apart. The only time you would go for full tank if you can 100% trust your team, so basically, never. And if he gets fed early, oh my god, dat full AP build bursting down multiple carries instantly.[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce]^ You actually have a good point but you contradict yourself. The reason he's so weak early is because he's suuuuuper easy to kill and you even said that his dueling is not good. He really has to trust his team to keep good ward coverage on the map and as you said, that basically never happens. You can't defend him by saying he's good lategame when he has a LOT of trouble to get through his team reliant early game. Full ap mumu is kinda asking to be instakilled unless you get a perfect initiation which usually doesn't happen. He's okay in tier 2, it's not that bad of a place for him.[/quote]