PBE Sion Rework

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Hannul]Feels pretty solid for a fighter. Feels terrible as a full tank. Build a [[last whisper]] to get the most out of his ult base damage and passive. [[Roar of the Slayer]] is good for setting up [[Decimating Smash]] but otherwise the armor reduct is useless except for your ADC to attack within that time. [[Soul Furnace]] can get more health than [[Enrage]] could. [[Soul Furnace]] has good base damage and if you want to go AP again, do a [[Vel'Koz]] type of AP build as him for terrible scaling but great base damage, except maybe you'd want a [[Rod of Ages]] to increase shield scaling so you can pop it when it's 1 hit away from detonation. [[Unstoppable Onslaught]] is nice to use even in a teamfight without charging, as it does the full slow still. You can also use it to charge into an existing teamfight, not to initiate one, or to barge into retards chasing your team. It instakills minions, so run through that 50 minion wave at your inhibitor and cause massive devastation. It has insane base damage, coupled with some armor pen it's going to probably deal around 800-1000 to squishies and 500-700 to tanks fully charged per say, halve these values if it's a melee range charge. As long as you charge [[Decimating Smash]] for one second, it's going to knock up so if they try to get out of the 1-2 second range, smash. You can also continously farm minion waves with [[Soul Furnace]] and a fully charged [[Decimating Smash]]. Sion is sort of interesting in the matchup against [[Heimerdinger]]. Just [[Roar of the Slayer]] his turrets into him or just push them away, and go back to farming. Really awkward.[/quote] I feel that full tank is the best option with items such as Mog's and Visage. Just get endless amounts of health and face tank everything. The only real damage item he can use is botrk imo.[/quote]

[quote=RottedApples]When i played him i went tank but i grabbed a hydra as well. felt pretty good. I've seen sion do pretty well overall[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]BotrK isn't sth for Sion. He doesn't AA that much outside his Passive's duration and his Speed is significantly lower than that of like Trundle, Jax, or any other AD Bruiser for that matter. His Playstyle reminds me of old AP Sion: Hit&Run burst attacks but with AD now and while being more tanky. It still feels ridiculously hard to just land a single AA outside a teamfight skirmish. Still, IMO he needs some dmg items like Triforce,Hyrda and some CDR on his tank items: Short CD bursts + a lot of CC and beefiness. It's nearly a must for him to charge into every big fight with his Ult so that he starts in the midst of it. PS. Sion is like the only non-caster that has ~200HP LESS than an ADC on lvl 18... He got his HP farm skill, but compared to other Bruiser/tanks he needs to get ~400 HP/200 creeps to even reach their values... I guess this was also the case for old Sion, but to keep it after a full rework is retarded. Sion doesnt gain anything from this while jungling and needs to wait until late if he goes top.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Cannon minions, large jungle creeps and champion kills/assists grant 8 HP, don't forget that. So it is more like 150 creeps or less and like 100 in the jungle.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Darcurse]BotrK isn't sth for Sion. He doesn't AA that much outside his Passive's duration and his Speed is significantly lower than that of like Trundle, Jax, or any other AD Bruiser for that matter. His Playstyle reminds me of old AP Sion: Hit&Run burst attacks but with AD now and while being more tanky. It still feels ridiculously hard to just land a single AA outside a teamfight skirmish. Still, IMO he needs some dmg items like Triforce,Hyrda and some CDR on his tank items: Short CD bursts + a lot of CC and beefiness. It's nearly a must for him to charge into every big fight with his Ult so that he starts in the midst of it. PS. Sion is like the only non-caster that has ~200HP LESS than an ADC on lvl 18... He got his HP farm skill, but compared to other Bruiser/tanks he needs to get ~400 HP/200 creeps to even reach their values... I guess this was also the case for old Sion, but to keep it after a full rework is retarded. Sion doesnt gain anything from this while jungling and needs to wait until late if he goes top.[/quote] I was actually farming his passive better in the jungle than in lane. Monster camps are all like +8 at minimum, and +14 on wolves and wraiths. Plus [[Sion]] actually farms camps reletively fast with two forms of AoE. Also, nah to triforce. I think brutalizer and elder lizard are enough (As a jungler) and maybe a hydra/brutalizer is enough for laning. Otherwise all tank items.[/quote]

[quote=Zordagoth][quote=OTGBionicArm]I was actually farming his passive better in the jungle than in lane. Monster camps are all like +8 at minimum, and +14 on wolves and wraiths. Plus [[Sion]] actually farms camps reletively fast with two forms of AoE. [/quote] You mean 12 on wolves, but yeah he farms hp super fast in jungle, barely lose Hp cos Q stun, E stun and you have a shield. the few times i played him was jungle tank : [[spirit of the ancient golem]], [[maw of malmortius]], [[frozen heart]] as core item, gives me quite good damage with ad and Cdr. I found out you don't need that much HP item lategame if you farmed well (cos passive + jungle item was about 3500~4000 hp quite easily) I feel like he's pretty good if your team has good CC (like one time I had Alistar/Orianna in the team it was a dream xD)[/quote]

[quote=RottedApples]I grabbed [[Spirit of the ancient golem]] then got [[Ravenous Hydra]] before going tank. I've seen people do more aggressive stuff like elder lizard and hydra but you are a tank after all. even if you want to build AD. It seems a bit like renekton where you can definitely build damage but you have to know when to stop.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=RottedApples]I grabbed [[Spirit of the ancient golem]] then got [[Ravenous Hydra]] before going tank. I've seen people do more aggressive stuff like elder lizard and hydra but you are a tank after all. even if you want to build AD. It seems a bit like renekton where you can definitely build damage but you have to know when to stop.[/quote] Pretty sure elder lizard/Brutalizer is all he needs for AD.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse][quote=OTGBionicArm]I was actually farming his passive better in the jungle than in lane. Monster camps are all like +8 at minimum, and +14 on wolves and wraiths. Plus Sion actually farms camps reletively fast with two forms of AoE.[/quote] Ok. Didnt read it properly and thought of the old ways how they handled that stuff. Like only Dragon/Baron count towards things like that. Triforce is more like a theoretical thing. IMO its even harder (less necessary) to AA in lane with his Q. He got some high base AD and with the Active from Hydra he'd get some nice burst without wasting too much not going on Tank. Jungling with him changes stuff, though.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And now, lets talk a bit about how the new experimental S5 jungle would affect him. For him, the best smite upgrade would be definitly the 50% slow smite, as this allows him to set up his Q and gives him actual gank potential pre 6 (well, after a full clear route you are 5 anyway). As for the enchantment, there isn't much choice, lifesteal is rather meh as you don't attack much and 45 AD isn't really that much. AS, who would want AS on him? AP? Jokes. Only leaves HP+CDR, which should be clearly preferred. The rest is kinda the same, Hydra+tanky. And Ohmwreckers stats should be really good on him, 300 HP, 50 Armor, 100% base regen and especially 10% CDR. Together with [[frozen heart]] that is 40%. Or you get [[spirit visage]] with it and get 10% from runes and masteries. But there is also the new [[warmog's armor]] with that triple regen and that health pool, hmm. I want my [[atma's impaler]] back :([/quote]