Should Garen get buffed?

[quote=Xoraxer]Garen's ult, Demacian Justice, is a great ult, but its not Garen is best skill, his E is. Garen is my most used champion in LoL and is very underrated. I can become an excellent tank with the help of Courage without any defensive item, as NicknameMy has specified, and can build AD at the same time. If you want to use Garen properly, you must farm well and rush Frozen Mallet. Frozen Mallet will give you the tankyness and even ganking power because of Q->E and having your E do full damage as he escapes. I have solo top countless times with Garen and in my honest opinion, he doesnt really have many counters. The worst case scenario would be a Darius or Irelia top. BTW Darius' Decapitate is extremely strong. it should be nerfed.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Actually, [[frozen mallet]] isn't needed if your team has enough cc to lock the enemies or you got red buff, so they can't escape anyway. [[hexdrinker]]+[[chain vest]] gives you good survival aswell. But obviously, vs true dmg, get HP with either [[frozen mallet]] or even [[warmog's armor]]. ([[guardian angel]] is a must anyway)[/quote]

[quote=jinlee]you still have to remember garen is 450 ip and darius is 6300, 14 times as much, and most of the 450 ip champs aren't the most viable champs there playable but there just not the best at what they do, why because there has to be cheep simple champions for new players to buy and how is it fair that a champion that is 1 14th of another champions price another be his equal, yes the 450 ip champs should be viable but you get what you pay for so they shouldn't be equal to 6300 champs[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Eh, I'll have to disagree with you there, jinlee. I think riot pumps up a lot of champions' price just for marketing reasons; riot knows that People like me will be silly enough to buy some RP to buy the champion directly, rather than spend a week farming up 6.3k IP. Simply put, riot is a private company, and they need to find some way to get their revenue. Anyways, plenty of the 450 ip champions are very viable, and some may be even more viable than the pricey champs. For instance, jungle [[nunu]] is one of the strongest junglers you can have, because he can set up ganks pretty well with [[ice blast]] and [[blood boil]](basically like a free Phantom dancer) on an AD carry. He can safely secure neutral camps like dragon and baron due to his [[consume]] and summoner [[smite]]. He stacks gp/10 items, which means that during the mid and late game, the AD carry has free reign to farm the jungle, without having to risk the jungler falling behind. Hell, because of [[visionary]], he can afford to give blue buff to the mid every time. Additionally, his [[absolute zero]] forces teams to shift aggro from the valuable AD carry, to killing/CC-ing nunu... Seems like a pretty good kit! Now, compare his jungle to the likes of [[lee sin]]. Lee sin doesn't need blue either, has incredible mobility, can set up ganks well with 2 gap closers + a slow + a knockback, has 7 spells, doesn't need blue, and can also pull aggro away from a carry thanks to spells like [[dragon's rage]]. Like nunu, he is a big danger to the opposing team if he is not focused down. You see, both of them fulfill their roles well, and [b]neither one is necessarily better[/b]. Sure, they both have their pros and cons. The only main difference is that [[lee sin]] seems as if he would be much more fun to play as. Now, back onto the Darius vs garen idea... Darius is more expensive because he is newer, and seemingly more fun to play; Because let's face it. Would you rather be playing a 16 year old boy who has the voice of louie armstrong on 'roids, OR would you rather play someone who sounds like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6-C-_PJTa4]Akama, the most badass sage in the world,[/url] and lops off heads like it's nobodies' business with his giant axe?[/quote]

[quote=Psychofrench][quote=jinlee] you still have to remember garen is 450 ip and darius is 6300, 14 times as much, and most of the 450 ip champs aren't the most viable champs there playable but there just not the best at what they do, why because there has to be cheep simple champions for new players to buy and how is it fair that a champion that is 1 14th of another champions price another be his equal, yes the 450 ip champs should be viable but you get what you pay for so they shouldn't be equal to 6300 champs [/quote] That has to be one of the stupidest posts I have seen in a long time, sorry to say. The price have nothing to do with the quality of the champion. Even though Riot still has a "business" to do, they have always tried to keep it balanced so people who can "afford" things did not have an unfair advantage over the players who can't (Yeah, they can afford boosts). Making "expensive" champions "better" than the cheap one would unbalance the game grandly and create a cast system of people who can and those who cannot. That Amumu....[/quote]

[quote=jinlee]im not saying that the 450 are bad but a lot of them are a lot less complex then the newer champs.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]I mean, the abilities themselves have simple mechanics, like sivir's [[spell shield]]. Most of the 450 ip champs have a pretty high skill cap though. For example, A well placed Ashe arrow will win a fight, and a skilled [[spell shield]] + [[flash]] + [[on the hunt]] bait can win games. Most of the 450 ip champs have high skill caps too[/quote]