Mobafire League of Legends Build Guides Mobafire League of Legends Build Guides
's Forum Avatar

Something about Void Staff

Creator: The Overmyynd September 9, 2012 2:27pm
1 2
The Overmyynd
<Editor>
The Overmyynd's Forum Avatar
Posts:
1406
Joined:
Feb 16th, 2012
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 2:27pm | Report
Just sent this as an email to someone explaining the pros and cons of Void Staff, when to get it and when not to get it, and I thought I would share it with the community in case there were any questions on it.

People think its this amazing cure all that will exponentially increase the damage their casters do. But that's not what it does at all. Void Staff is a counter item to things like Force of Nature and Abyssal Mask, not something that you spend gold on if nobody has any mres. Why?

Because the staff gives 40% mpen. Not 40 mpen, 40%. If no one is building mres, that means that you are only taking away (generally) 15 mres. and thats IF you did NOT grab Sorcerer's Shoes, which gives you straight 20 mpen, rendering the opponents down to 10. AND, on top of THAT, any AP caster mastery page will have that 10 mpen mastery, so with your sorc shoes and the mastery alone, you already are basically dealing truedamage to your opponents. At this point the passive on Void Staff is completely useless, and that 2300 gold could be used to buy the two components to Rabadon's Deathcap instead, which would lead to massively more damage.

The stacking effect of penetrations go like this:

In the math, first your runes/masteries take effect.
Then straight mpen items take effect ( Sorcerer's Shoes)
THEN the % mpen items take effect ( Void Staff)

It may sound trivial and overly complicated, but it makes alot of sense. If someone has, let's say, 120 mres (which is frankly quite alot) and the % took over first THEN the flat, their mres would be taken down as such:
-48 for %
-20 for shes
-10 for masteries
-8 for runes

Leaving the opponent with 34 mres.

Now, looking at it the way it ACTUALLY goes:
-10 for masterys
-8 for runes
-20 for shoes
-33 for void

leaving 49 mres. Thats quite a difference, especially in that zone where the points in mres count for a greater % of damage reduction.

I know this is blah blah blah complicated BS, but looking at the math and science of the coding is what separates the players that use the game to pass the time, from the players that make money off of the game.
Hey, if you liked any advice i gave, be sure to +rep me! Oh, and check out my Shaco and Maokail lorecraft in my Blog! I'm a starving artist in need of attention, so please feel free to read, respond, and critique me! Please? Anybody that leaves a comment (good or bad) will receive a +rep!
Anastasios
<Member>
Anastasios's Forum Avatar
Posts:
1027
Joined:
Dec 19th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 2:43pm | Report
Wait
Masteries and Runes are calculated before items?
I did NOT know that...
This makes it insanely more complicated to calculate MPen...

Many thanks to MissMaw, LaCorpse, Xiron, Arcana3 and Joxuu for making me sigs!
Luther3000
<Sharpshooter>
Luther3000's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
8046
Joined:
Jun 24th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 2:55pm | Report
Anastasios wrote:

Wait
Masteries and Runes are calculated before items?
I did NOT know that...
This makes it insanely more complicated to calculate MPen...


I'm 99.9% sure this is not the case.
IceCreamy
<Moderator>
IceCreamy's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
5981
Joined:
Aug 14th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 2:59pm | Report
No it doesn't, Magic Penetration really says it all.

Firstly all the flat MPen will be counted ( Sorcerer's Shoes, Greater Mark of Magic Penetration and then all the % will be counted ( Void Staff, Arcane Knowledge .

That's all there is to it, lol.

DuffTime wrote:
ok ok plz carry me omg
i was only waiting for you to ask

Temzilla wrote:
Too hot to be icecream.

Luther3000 wrote:
He looks like a hair gel advert on legs

Toshabi wrote:
Icecreamy, with hair as slick and smooth as the ocean waves of Cocobana
Lugignaf
<Moderator>
Lugignaf's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
10967
Joined:
Feb 8th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:18pm | Report
First of all, what?


In the math, first your runes/masteries take effect.
Then straight mpen items take effect ( Sorcerer's Shoes)
THEN the % mpen items take effect ( Void Staff)


This is all kinds of wrong.

If you have % pen in masteries, it goes straight into your %pen if you get void staff giving you 46% mag pen. Same goes for if you have some flat pen in runes.

It will always apply in this order:
  • Flat reduction
  • % reduction
  • Flat pen
  • % Pen

No matter where it comes from, it'll follow that order.

Secondly, you get void staff to deal more damage no matter what.
If you hit the tanks, which I know you will either by accident or with AoE, you'll be contributing more damage overall than if you stacked more AP. Especially if you have a %HP damage skill like Eve's ult, Nasus ult or simply Brand's passive.

Even on a 45 MR target (0 MR from runes or masteries and an Aegis), you would still drop them enough to benefit from getting void staff.

Let's do math on a champion with 1:1 ratios on 3 skills vs someone with 100 MR, for simplicity's sake. Only 2 items are Void Staff and Rabadon's Deathcap

Deathcap grants 182 AP, void staff grants 70.
All 3 skills are going to be dealing 100 base damage, again, for simplicity.

Void staff damage, pre MR: 510
DCap damage. pre MR: 846

Now, 100 MR reduces damage by 50% so that drops Dcap's damage down to 423.
Void staff however drops the MR to 60. This gives a reduction of about 38% and drops void staff's damage to 318.75

Now obviously, with the same amount of AP, or even more similar amounts, void staff would be coming out on top simply because it provides such an increase in damage. But, I'm losing my point here so, I'll stop rambling.
Sig courtesy of GrandmasterD. Go get your own sig from them. :D
The Overmyynd
<Editor>
The Overmyynd's Forum Avatar
Posts:
1406
Joined:
Feb 16th, 2012
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:37pm | Report
Damn this is all alot more complicated than what i thought it was... I'm pretty sure I had a veteran explain things to me this way >.> Is there a link somewhere that explains precisely how this works? I want to read Riot's explanation myself to make sure I understand everything correctly. Don't want to be giving anyone else any more bad information o.0
Hey, if you liked any advice i gave, be sure to +rep me! Oh, and check out my Shaco and Maokail lorecraft in my Blog! I'm a starving artist in need of attention, so please feel free to read, respond, and critique me! Please? Anybody that leaves a comment (good or bad) will receive a +rep!
Lugignaf
<Moderator>
Lugignaf's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
10967
Joined:
Feb 8th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:39pm | Report
It's just math really.

Most of what I'm saying is found in Icecreamy's link about magic pen or in the magic resist section of the "official" wiki.


Thank you to jhoijhoi for the sig, and all the dividers in the guide.

Luther3000
<Sharpshooter>
Luther3000's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
8046
Joined:
Jun 24th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:40pm | Report
The LoL wiki lists it as being

Flat Reduction
% Reduction
Flat Penetration
% Penetration

However ever other source I can find lists it as

% Reduction
Flat Reduction
Flat Penetration
% Penetration

Not sure it really matters much since I don't think I've ever actually seen anything with % reduction in the game.
The Overmyynd
<Editor>
The Overmyynd's Forum Avatar
Posts:
1406
Joined:
Feb 16th, 2012
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:41pm | Report
However, I WILL stand by my opinion that Void Staff is a counter item. Sorcerer's Shoes and Arcane Knowledge together with possible 9 Greater Mark of Magic Penetration makes grabbing void to deal with champs that are not building mres a waste of resources. The % mpen at that point would simply be too low to make the passive worth it.
Hey, if you liked any advice i gave, be sure to +rep me! Oh, and check out my Shaco and Maokail lorecraft in my Blog! I'm a starving artist in need of attention, so please feel free to read, respond, and critique me! Please? Anybody that leaves a comment (good or bad) will receive a +rep!
The Overmyynd
<Editor>
The Overmyynd's Forum Avatar
Posts:
1406
Joined:
Feb 16th, 2012
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend September 9, 2012 3:43pm | Report
Luther3000 wrote:

The LoL wiki lists it as being

Flat Reduction
% Reduction
Flat Penetration
% Penetration

However the Mobafire wiki and an adjudicator on the forums list it as

% Reduction
Flat Reduction
Flat Penetration
% Penetration


Thats... quite the difference >.<
Hey, if you liked any advice i gave, be sure to +rep me! Oh, and check out my Shaco and Maokail lorecraft in my Blog! I'm a starving artist in need of attention, so please feel free to read, respond, and critique me! Please? Anybody that leaves a comment (good or bad) will receive a +rep!
1 2

You need to log in before commenting.