Your opinion on this?
Everything I said that you are quoting in the first part is clear and concise. I don't feel I need to explain it, it's pretty simple.
People do report users that they suspect cheated or abused the system. We check them out. We ban and clear out votes when users are found to be doing this. You don't see it because we don't march around heralding it, but we always look in to it, and we always follow through when there is enough evidence that the person was abusing the system. They disappear silently.
Regarding your quoted scenarios;
1) Voted under C2V with the comment "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". As has been stated many times before, if you enable C2V, you are trying to FORCE people to not only vote publicly, but to back up their vote with an explanation. Of course you're going to get a bunch of useless posts, you can't force someone to write a detailed comment, and as we are all gamers (notorious for rampant trash talking!), they are going to often post trash talk instead. If you don't like it, you have the option of disabling C2V. I personally am not a fan of the C2V system, I'd be happy to remove it entirely.
Also regarding perfecting your builds and then getting a -1 from someone. It's going to happen, I'm sorry to say. No guide will ever be perfect in the eyes of every single reader. Even general game guides that contain nothing but facts will get down votes. That is what I mean by general reader opinion. The guides readers want to see will get RANKED higher. Their scores may not be awesome but their rank will reflect how many readers liked their work. You may have 70% as a score, and you may hate that because you want perfection, but your guide may still be ranked highly for a champion even with that score. You have to look past the score.
2) Down voting multiple guides. Many users do this legitimately. They load up their favorite champion, they scroll through and check out the guides that are already here, they down vote a number of guides they don't like. They may or may not up vote others. Then they decide they can do better and post their own guide for that champion. If they voted once per guide and do not have multiple accounts, we have no valid reason to delete their votes. What I think you are getting at, is akin to us implementing a system that prevents you from voting on more than X guides for a certain champion. If we are going to manually start filtering out such votes, we may as well just block them entirely. Are you really going to be happy if you can only vote once per champion?
Remember also that, all authors are in the same boat. Everyone gets these votes. Your score may not be perfect, but it doesn't affect your RANK amongst all guides, unless you have been targeted by someone who is actually cheating the system. Then as I said, we will find them and remove them.
3) Nothing more to add that I haven't already said.
I'm not offended, though I don't know why you put my name "in quotes". I am a real person, not a supposed person :) Nothing you said here is new unfortunately. Read through the support forum. We've discussed these issues dozens of times at length. We have implemented many systems and improvements to our voting and ranking system. In the end there are some facts of life you will just have to accept in any situation where public votes affect you personally.
If you have suggestions on how to improve the system though, then I am happy to hear them!
People do report users that they suspect cheated or abused the system. We check them out. We ban and clear out votes when users are found to be doing this. You don't see it because we don't march around heralding it, but we always look in to it, and we always follow through when there is enough evidence that the person was abusing the system. They disappear silently.
Regarding your quoted scenarios;
1) Voted under C2V with the comment "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". As has been stated many times before, if you enable C2V, you are trying to FORCE people to not only vote publicly, but to back up their vote with an explanation. Of course you're going to get a bunch of useless posts, you can't force someone to write a detailed comment, and as we are all gamers (notorious for rampant trash talking!), they are going to often post trash talk instead. If you don't like it, you have the option of disabling C2V. I personally am not a fan of the C2V system, I'd be happy to remove it entirely.
Also regarding perfecting your builds and then getting a -1 from someone. It's going to happen, I'm sorry to say. No guide will ever be perfect in the eyes of every single reader. Even general game guides that contain nothing but facts will get down votes. That is what I mean by general reader opinion. The guides readers want to see will get RANKED higher. Their scores may not be awesome but their rank will reflect how many readers liked their work. You may have 70% as a score, and you may hate that because you want perfection, but your guide may still be ranked highly for a champion even with that score. You have to look past the score.
2) Down voting multiple guides. Many users do this legitimately. They load up their favorite champion, they scroll through and check out the guides that are already here, they down vote a number of guides they don't like. They may or may not up vote others. Then they decide they can do better and post their own guide for that champion. If they voted once per guide and do not have multiple accounts, we have no valid reason to delete their votes. What I think you are getting at, is akin to us implementing a system that prevents you from voting on more than X guides for a certain champion. If we are going to manually start filtering out such votes, we may as well just block them entirely. Are you really going to be happy if you can only vote once per champion?
Remember also that, all authors are in the same boat. Everyone gets these votes. Your score may not be perfect, but it doesn't affect your RANK amongst all guides, unless you have been targeted by someone who is actually cheating the system. Then as I said, we will find them and remove them.
3) Nothing more to add that I haven't already said.
I'm not offended, though I don't know why you put my name "in quotes". I am a real person, not a supposed person :) Nothing you said here is new unfortunately. Read through the support forum. We've discussed these issues dozens of times at length. We have implemented many systems and improvements to our voting and ranking system. In the end there are some facts of life you will just have to accept in any situation where public votes affect you personally.
If you have suggestions on how to improve the system though, then I am happy to hear them!
Okey Dokey, and the quote is a habit, I will speak to you personally about the system and Yes I do have some suggestions I need to speak to you about. Thank you.
+Rep me If I helped you with my comment or if you liked my guide~If you haven't seen my guide yet. Click below
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
I would agree with your system as long as it affects all votes. That means every single upvote you got without a valid explanation as to why that guide is better than the rest should be considered a troll vote and deleted as well. And that includes pretty much every single upvote you got.
However, if you want a fair system then the current system is the best thing you will find without turning this into an elitist community. There are several good guides who are underrated due to troll voting, but there are also plenty of bad guides that are over rated due to sheep votes. It is impossible to fix this as long as any user can vote.
However, if you want a fair system then the current system is the best thing you will find without turning this into an elitist community. There are several good guides who are underrated due to troll voting, but there are also plenty of bad guides that are over rated due to sheep votes. It is impossible to fix this as long as any user can vote.
Matt wrote:
I'm not offended, though I don't know why you put my name "in quotes". I am a real person, not a supposed person :)
You'll dress only in attire specially sanctioned by MOBAFire Special Services. You'll conform to the identity we give you, eat where we tell you, live where we tell you. From now on, you'll have no identifying marks of any kind. You'll not stand out in any way. Your entire image is crafted to leave no lasting memory with anyone you encounter. You're a rumor, recognizable only as déjà vu and dismissed just as quickly. You don't exist; you were never even born. Anonymity is your name, silence your native tongue. You're no longer part of the System. You are above the System. Over it. Beyond it. We're "them." We're "they." We are the "Matt".
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
Canoas wrote:
I would agree with your system as long as it affects all votes. That means every single upvote you got without a valid explanation as to why that guide is better than the rest should be considered a troll vote and deleted as well. And that includes pretty much every single upvote you got.
However, if you want a fair system then the current system is the best thing you will find without turning this into an elitist community. There are several good guides who are underrated due to troll voting, but there are also plenty of bad guides that are over rated due to sheep votes. It is impossible to fix this as long as any user can vote.
basically said what I was going to say, but yeah. Sadly no matter how much you complain or how extensive your argument is, the bare truth is that there is no fix to this. I haven't created a guide yet, but the guides are really made so that you can help others become better at the game from your experience. It's not about "rep" or about "a good score", it's simply about reaching out to those players who need help. Your argument may be that your reaching out to less players because your getting troll voted, but that doesn't matter. It's not how many you help, it's the fact that you are helping.
Oh god...I meant to type two sentences. I always do this >.<
thanks Hogopogo for the banner :D
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What they won't take any actions
1) Voter did not provide a valid defense or explanation (meaningless comments).
2) Voter misunderstood an aspect of the guide.
3) Author disagrees with voter's opinion.
4) Voter is rude in their comment.
Alright, Getting this straight to you guys in a simple way.
The first rule:
"Voter did not provide a valid defense or explanation (Meaningless comments)"
~Now what is viewed as trolling is when someone is persistantly annoying, highly irritating, and has no argument to what they wrote or left to you... That is what is called trolling and troll voting... If the person can't bring a simple argument to the table, then he shouldn't vote at all... Simply cause.
The second rule:
"Voter misunderstood an aspect of the guide"
~ If it's misunderstood, it should be looked over... When you think "Oh, Misunderstood" What does it actually mean??? Yeah, It means that they didn't read your guide, they simply voted caused they have an account.
The third rule:
"The author disagrees with voter's opinion"
~ Well Now this is not troll voting... Neither should this be writen here...
The fourth Rule:
"Voter is rude in their comment"
~Only one fix.. Filters...
Now the arguments brought to the table when "Matt" wrote this..
Matt's sentence:
"The point of the voting system is to try to gain an accurate measurement of the general reader opinion of the content on the site for the purpose of ranking."
My View of it
~Accurate Measument, now what is that? It's when something is precissely right (in other words)... So this system "MobaFire" is trying to gain an accurate measurement,,, Cause it's so accurate when someone doesn't properly speak english, gives you a sh*t argument, and doesn't take your work for what it actually is... It's fine, I'm all up for non english speakers around here... I was one of them long ago, but it's enough. There's nothing accurate about this.
Matt's sentence:
"If the voter misunderstood or disliked some aspect of your guide, others will too, and so their vote is representative and necessary."
My View of it
~ This sentence explains nothing, simply that... "They don't understand you... Oh it's kay, votedown =D" That's exactly all this sentence says.
Matt's sentence:
"We may moderate the comments themselves if they are nasty, but we will not delete the associated vote."
My View of it
~ Another useless sentence saying "We'll edit the comment so there are no bad words for you but you still got trollvoted TROLOLOLOLOOL".
Matt's sentence:
"To be clear; we will not be deleting any votes unless we can find proof that the voter broke site rules by attempting to circumvent system protections."
My View of it
~ Ok so what does this sentence say in the end? Oh it says "No troll votes will be deleted unless the voter broke site rules by hacking or doing some crazy sh*t like that"... Last I remember Troll voting is not hacking...
Matt's sentence:
"Additionally, please do not directly PM Moderators or Administrators in an effort to get votes deleted."
My View of it
~ Put into better words >>> "Don't try to talk to us about it, we don't care"
Matt's sentence:
"If you truly feel someone is cheating the system, or if you are offended by their comments, use the report tool and provide all the information you can in your report, including links and any other information that you feel proves guilt. Not only will this ensure that your issue is dealt with as quickly as possible, but it will help us to build up a history on that user."
My View of it
~ No one would report anyone for cheating the system, most people would not say it, but they would never report them for "Cheating the system"... They want their votes, regardless of them being writers, they want their votes. Nothing else...
So in the end this guide should be written with these few words:
"People have been reporting of "troll votes" We want to tell you, it's not of matter, we only revoke votes if they are hacking because IT"S AGAINST SITE RULES KAY?
Further, These below won't have any action taken to them:
1)You got trolled, but we won't remove it
2)Lack of english in their vocabulary
3)Author disagrees with vother's opinion
4)Being a d*ck
The voting system is so people can be nice or be a**holes no matter how great your guide is, If the voters hated your guide, others will too, and their votes are really really important to show how they don't know how to read. Bad words? It's kay, we delete them.
By the way; We won't delete votes unless they're hacking.
AlSO!!!! Don't come talk to us if they're troll voting, no matter if they do it all around and to many guides, We won't do anything about it, although If they're hacking... TELL US CAUSE IT"S AGAINST SITE RULES KAY?!"
I Think what I wrote is actually more accurate of what our Troll posts system is all about =)
IDEA: They troll vote you? Troll vote them... You won't get banned says the Admin and Moderators.. "It's an opinion" AHHAHAHA right..
Comments on the actual post
Yes, I will quote people. Yes, I will write about it.
I just got a troll vote, he -1'd me using the comment "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". Which means he didn't even look at any of my guide, he's not "disagreeing with me", he didn't "misunderstand my guide", he didn't have any argument which he would have "explained, or defended". He didn't "include rudeness" in the 'comment', the entire comment was rude. He deliberately intended to lower my rating, he joined Mobafire the day he made this comment, he has 10 other comments, all of which I'm assuming are "IM GAY MOUAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH". It's not fair that some of us try to perfect our builds as well as we can in an attempt to have a good rating, when all it takes is one 'troll' to make an account and go around giving -1s with such a comment as this.
Proof of this interaction is on Page 8 of my Trundle guide.
My View of it
This is trolling and should be brought into consideration.
It's also not fair to remove a downvote - even if he's trolling, it reflects his opinion. Like it or not, trolls are part of the LoL community too.
The OP in a tl;dr is "If it's not an IP cheat, we can't delete it."
My View of it
Another useless comment, "No matter if he's trolling, it's his opinion..."
YO PEOPLE, WAKE THE F*CK UP... It doesn't work like that, people don't vote on their opinions with no arguments like that... WAKE UP WHADHSLDJSKDAJOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Downvoting 10 thousand guides IS TROLLING, IT"S NOT AN OPINION... HELLO WAKE THE F*CK UP (repeated).
=).
Maybe he did read your guide and didn't really like it, and didn't feel like leaving a comment but wanted to vote still? You forced him to leave a comment and he was annoyed so he replied in kind and left a rude comment.
We just can't go around deleting votes on a whim. As Jebus said, if they're not cheating, they are allowed to vote freely. It's just one vote. If the guide is great, then all the other + votes will render it moot."
My View of it
What should have been written instead "Alrighty, Maybe they read it, maybe they didn't... maybe they didn't really like it... So they didn't want to leave a comment, they just wanted to downvote you for no reason, and then since you turned on the "Comment to vote" they didn't want to write anything soooo they left a rude comment..."
Yes, you can go around deleting votes on a whim, Again I will repeat, trolling is not an opinion... No guide is great enough to go through thousands of trolls downvoting it.. Yes there are thousands of trolls, you guys don't take care of many.
In the end, I don't want any of the Moderators or Administrators locking this thread simply because I offended them unintentionally, besides it's a free country remember? WRITE FREELY AND VOTE FREELY! =D... So yeah... I want to see people's aspects of this.
Comment away, just don't hate. This is just to bring in how it feels to be troll voted...
I think this text is better being stickied than the troll votes one anyways.
This troll system is clearly broken, I'm up for helping on making a new one.
Poll: You can vote, you're annonymous and no one will hate