The Overmyynd wrote:
So the question is, if you reduce it to -10 (or whatever) will you take more damage than if your armor/mres was exactly 0? Is i believe what the spirit of the post is asking.
You do indeed take increased damage. It's somewhat irrelevant to know though since scenarios where your team actually has the ridiculous amount of reduction (not pen) necessary for it to happen are virtually non-existant.
Nighthawk wrote:
or 30 Pen and 10 Reduction, will it be reduced to -10.
This is incorrect because reduction always applies before penetration. In this example the value would be 0.
30 - 10 (reduction) - 30 (pen) = 0
That's why it's rarely ever possible to see increased damage, because you need to get it all the way down below 0 with ONLY reduction. There's no way to do it unless you specifically build an entire team composition around reduction and your opponents don't buy any of the resistance.
Luther3000 wrote:
That's why it's rarely ever possible to see increased damage, because you need to get it all the way down below 0 with ONLY reduction. There's no way to do it unless you specifically build an entire team composition around reduction and your opponents don't buy any of the resistance.
Which is dumb in it's own right since there's very few flat reduction champions.
Soraka/Fiddle/Morgana are your best bet for negative MR, but there's almost no hope for negative armor.
True love is found only in yourself.
Lugignaf wrote:
Soraka/Fiddle/Morgana are your best bet for negative MR, but there's almost no hope for negative armor.
Unless Nasus is in your team, there's no hope at all.
Nothing else has flat Armor Reduction. It's all % based now.
I want Starks back :[
tehAsian wrote:
Unless Nasus is in your team, there's no hope at all.
Nothing else has flat Armor Reduction. It's all % based now.
I want Starks back :[
Gatling Gun(40 max), Shatter(30 max), Caustic Spittle(25 max), Spirit Fire(40 max), H-28G Evolution Turret(50 max), Puncturing taunt(30 max)Not really a coherent team if you're trying to do armor reduction.
Sig courtesy of GrandmasterD. Go get your own sig from them. :D
So for example items with percentage reduction can't set mr below zero(void staff) but abyssal scepter can?
As we are in topic, two items with percentage penetration, how they do cooperate? I know first goes percentage penetration, then reduce, but:
Black Cleaver and Last whisper for example against champ with 100 armor:
Does it work that way: 100 armor - {100 * 35% + 100 * 25%(Black cleaver)] = 100 - 60 = 40
Or this way: [100 armor - (100 * 35%)] * (100% - 25%) = 65 armor * 75% = 48,75 armor
In other words, percentage is summary or they independent operations done in any order?
As we are in topic, two items with percentage penetration, how they do cooperate? I know first goes percentage penetration, then reduce, but:
Black Cleaver and Last whisper for example against champ with 100 armor:
Does it work that way: 100 armor - {100 * 35% + 100 * 25%(Black cleaver)] = 100 - 60 = 40
Or this way: [100 armor - (100 * 35%)] * (100% - 25%) = 65 armor * 75% = 48,75 armor
In other words, percentage is summary or they independent operations done in any order?
Luther3000 wrote:
This is incorrect because reduction always applies before penetration. In this example the value would be 0.
30 - 10 (reduction) - 30 (pen) = 0
didn't they change that for s3? thought they did but w/e.
@Mikuroo
No, penetration can't penetrate past Zero. Period.
Nighthawk wrote:
didn't they change that for s3? thought they did but w/e.
nop they just changed it so that % pen comes before flat pen.
@OP, stacking % pen is calculated multiplicatively. I suggest you take a look around some of the wiki articles since they can probably answer most of your questions. Apparantly certain other people could also do with reading them. :P
Silesia Blaster wrote:
So for example items with percentage reduction can't set mr below zero(void staff) but abyssal scepter can?
As we are in topic, two items with percentage penetration, how they do cooperate? I know first goes percentage penetration, then reduce, but:
Black Cleaver and Last whisper for example against champ with 100 armor:
Does it work that way: 100 armor - {100 * 35% + 100 * 25%(Black cleaver)] = 100 - 60 = 40
Or this way: [100 armor - (100 * 35%)] * (100% - 25%) = 65 armor * 75% = 48,75 armor
In other words, percentage is summary or they independent operations done in any order?
So much wrong info in this thread woah.
This is the correct order:
Flat Armor Reduction
Percentage armor reduction
Percentage armor penetration
Flat armor penetration
If you have Black Cleaver and Last Whisper at the same time, here's what happens:
Against 200 armor: 200 - 25% = 150 armor <-- this is the armor he has against your allies
150 - 35% = 97.5 Armor left <--- the armor he has against you
If you 25 flat armor reduction, 25% armor reduction, 35% armor pen and 15 flat armor pen:
200 armor: 200-25= 175
175-25%= 131.25 <---- this is the armor he will have against your allies
131.25 - 35% = 85.3125
85.3125 - 15 = 70.3125 <---- the armor he will have against you
I hope that helped. The only way you can reduce the enemy's armor under 0 is with Flat armor reduction (the first one) only. Corki for example has a lot of that (40 with his
Gatling Gun). If an enemy had 30 armor and Corki would use his full E on him, regardless of Corki's % armor reduction/penetration or flat penetration, the enemy would have -10 Armor. And the only way to make it lower would be with additionnal flat armor reduftion from other abilities. Having -10 armor means you take 109.09% physical damage from any source. So if Corki had 100 AD, his autoataack would do 109.09 damage on that enemy with -10 armor.I think everything's there.
My AP Xin Zhao guide is on the way!
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