MFTV & Twitch: Official Statement

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=Embracing] Your tone seems condescending as well. Don't be a hypocrite. [/quote] Fair enough, mea culpa. [quote=Embracing]Back on topic, I don't see why there are so many complaints. If twitch was fine with it, how is it anyone's place to place judgement on how "shady" and "deceptive" the site is? Let's say the mods intentionally placed the stream in a tiny little pixel on the side. If twitch said it was fine, why the hell are people complaining about it.[/quote] Twitch does not dictate to the community what is and is not acceptable. Just because they gave permission does not mean that everyone suddenly loses the right to object and be upset. And considering that the community is who MOBAfire wants to attract with this stream, I would expect that what they say is infinitely more important and relevant than what Twitch gives permission for. [quote=Embracing] Is this some argument about "morals" "lying" or "deceit" now? This whole god damn problem exists because people overreact to "injustice" and because they feel like they're the fucking police. MOBAFire's view count has not negatively impacted any person's enjoyment of streams unless they feel that "oh this site is getting more views than my favorite streamers site qqqqq its taking up one more box on my screen" which is OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING WORTH COMPLAINING ABOUT. And now we're getting random accusations because of a shitty reputation? I bet if we were fucking solomid or lolpro we wouldn't even be having this shit. Because we have a bad reputation for guides we're SURELY to be willing to cheat anyone, right?[/quote] Fairness matters, and the feeling right now is that MOBAfire is unfairly adding viewers that have no input as to whether or not they want to watch the stream, which negatively affects less popular streamers who really do work their asses off to get their numbers. Let's look at one example. Early this morning, around 7am Eastern, the last of the most watched streams was Pobelter, with ~800 viewers. If the auto-playing MOBATV stream had been running, he would not have been in the most watched category, even though his actively watching 800 may have been greater than the 1,500 auto-views that MOBAfire would have. Is this fair to Pobelter? Is this a sign of MOBAfire acting responsibly and respectfully? A lot of those lesser known streamers really do bust their asses trying to build a viewership, they spend money on RP to give away, they play and do shit that their viewers ask for instead of maybe what they want to do, they plan to stream at incredibly odd off hours to take advantage of top streamers and pros not being online, it is an amazing amount of work. MOBATV being set to auto-play shits all over the work they put in with no actual effort from MOBAfire to get people to willingly and knowingly come to their stream to watch it. As to whether or not this same reaction would come if clg, solomid or lolpro started doing the same thing I can't say. I do think it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad of a reaction, I do think you're right that no small part of this is due to MOBAfire's reputation, but that is part of business. That is also why this is so important for MOBAfire to act responsibly here instead of just shrugging off the complaints and ignoring what the main criticism is, which is the stream being on auto-play. This is an opportunity for MOBAfire to rebuild some of the bridges that poor administration burned down in the past by allowing the top rated guides to be so shitty. If MOBAfire came out tomorrow saying "We did not realize that this would cause such discord among the community, we apologize and will turn the auto-play off, we hope that you guys will give our stream a chance and look forward to serving you in the future." then they would be GOLDEN. They'd be untouchable reputation wise for a while, and I expect their stream viewers would go up. Business rarely get these kind of chances, and it would insane for MOBAfire to piss this one away. [quote=Embracing]And anyways, who the fuck would put a stream super big on a GUIDE SITE?[/quote] The stream is supposed to be something of a live guide, but I don't think anyone is saying it has to be super huge and take up half the screen. It just needs to be above the fold and not on auto-play. [quote=Embracing] So why the hell are we getting so much fucking hate for something that's LEGAL???[/quote] Legal != Right[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=Anonandonandon] If MOBAfire came out tomorrow saying "We did not realize that this would cause such discord among the community, we apologize and will turn the auto-play off, we hope that you guys will give our stream a chance and look forward to serving you in the future." then they would be GOLDEN. They'd be untouchable reputation wise for a while, and I expect their stream viewers would go up. Business rarely get these kind of chances, and it would insane for MOBAfire to piss this one away. [/quote] doubtful, most of the reddit community already had unfavorable perceptions of Mobafire, that won't change. Reputation is never untouchable and I'm pretty sure they're actively working with Twitch in the best way to respond to the issue. [quote] Legal != Right [/quote] they're a business in it to make money[/quote]

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=Meiyjhe] Disagreed, the gravest sin is going bankrupt [/quote] Pissing off customers is a good way to go bankrupt. [quote]If this was court, and Mobafire shows evidence that Twitch gave them permission to do it, then Mobafires name would be clean, and Twitch would be the only one responsible.[/quote] This isn't a court of law. This is the court of public opinion. Twitch did not set that stream to auto-play, so as far as the community is concerned MOBAfire is the culprit here, not Twitch. Twitch also currently enjoys some degree of invulnerability due to being the only streaming service for gaming other than AzubuTV which is probably going to shut down soon due to this whole money laundering scandal. [quote]The community is bigger than just you and the other people that disagree. The community includes everyone using the services offered by, in this case, Twitch, mobafire and SivHD's channels. So that also includes us. You cannot say that a community disagrees with mobafire, because mobafire is also a community. If we were to held a vote on this matter, there will be probably be 20% find it unacceptable, 20% understand it, 60% doesn't care. [/quote] I don't think your numbers are quite right there but for the sake of argument let's say it's only 20% of the community that finds this unacceptable. Are you really going to suggest that it's a wise business decision to piss off 20% of your customers? Honestly I think the amount of people complaining is far, far greater than you seem to think, and it is not just SivHD viewers doing it. I feel that everyone needs to get away from this idea that SivHD is some kind of leader on this. He's just the guy who took it away from where reddit mods could delete it. I shit you not, this is a conversation that has been going on since day 2 of the MOBATV stream launch. Nobody was really sure of what steps to take or even what the reality of the situation was until yesterday though.[/quote]

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=Mooninites] doubtful, most of the reddit community already had unfavorable perceptions of Mobafire, that won't change. Reputation is never untouchable and I'm pretty sure they're actively working with Twitch in the best way to respond to the issue. [/quote] If there's anything reddit and the Internet in general likes more than drama, it's contrition. So yes, this is an opportunity for MOBAfire to start turning that reputation around by eating a little crow.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]You're assuming that everyone on SivHd's stream and everyone on reddit are customers, most of them probably aren't and they're probably not potential customers either. A vast majority of them will never use mobafire because of the stigma attached to it. So you're numbers are probably off base by miles. Besides, Mobafire is the most successful League of Legends fansite by far, its worth more and sees more visitors per month than Lolpro, CLgaming, and Solomid combined, it's doing just fine[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote]This isn't a court of law. This is the court of public opinion. Twitch did not set that stream to auto-play, so as far as the community is concerned MOBAfire is the culprit here, not Twitch. Twitch also currently enjoys some degree of invulnerability due to being the only streaming service for gaming other than AzubuTV which is probably going to shut down soon due to this whole money laundering scandal.[/quote] There is a reason why pretty much all democracies use the court of law, because it is the most fair system at the moment. Public opinion don't matter when the accusations aren't legit. Twitch did not set it on autoplay, but Mobafire gently asked if it was allowed, and they said yes, thus Twitch is responsible for that, not Mobafire. [quote]I don't think your numbers are quite right there but for the sake of argument let's say it's only 20% of the community that finds this unacceptable. Are you really going to suggest that it's a wise business decision to piss off 20% of your customers?[/quote] You are absolutely right, my numbers aren't quite right, but they included the community of Twitch, SivHD channels and Mobafire itself. These are huge comminities, and it is probably like: 98% that doesnt care, 1% that disagrees and 1% that agrees. The point of the argument was to show that your "community" does not include the whole picture. It is like saying if a man loses all his money on a stupid bet, that the whole community is taking a lot of stupid risks that makes them bankrupt. If you use the community as an argument, us it as the whole picture, not just a few people. [quote]Honestly I think the amount of people complaining is far, far greater than you seem to think, and it is not just SivHD viewers doing it. [/quote] And most of those people have no idea what they are complaining about. I mean, people love complaining about how bad the government is, but if they were in the shoes of the government, they would probably make much worse decisions. I believe you, there will be friends of SivHD fans, and friends of those friends that will hear about what mobafire has done. And there will still be a mayority that doesn't care and will still use mobafire. So the problem is not as big as you might think.[/quote]

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=Mooninites]Besides, Mobafire is the most successful League of Legends fansite by far, its worth more and sees more visitors per month than Lolpro, CLgaming, and Solomid combined, it's doing just fine [/quote] This is quite possibly the most delusional thing I've seen in this entire thread. Mobafire is at the bottom of the barrel in terms of successful LOL websites, and is widely considered throughout the player base to be the worst guide site in the history of the game. But clearly you're okay with that, and based on the other things you have said in this thread, you have no comprehension of how business works.[/quote]

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=Meiyjhe] There is a reason why pretty much all democracies use the court of law, because it is the most fair system at the moment. Public opinion don't matter when the accusations aren't legit. Twitch did not set it on autoplay, but Mobafire gently asked if it was allowed, and they said yes, thus Twitch is responsible for that, not Mobafire. [/quote] This isn't a democracy. This isn't a government. This is the wide-open free market. Public opinion is far more important than you're giving it credit for. [quote]You are absolutely right, my numbers aren't quite right, but they included the community of Twitch, SivHD channels and Mobafire itself. These are huge comminities, and it is probably like: 98% that doesnt care, 1% that disagrees and 1% that agrees. [/quote] This is delusional. The handful of people, and it is really a handful, that use MOBAfire and are okay with what's going on is miniscule in comparison to those that are pissed off and taking action. I'm sorry if you are incapable of realizing this, but that's the reality. Let go of this idea you have that this whole thing is solely a matter of SivHD and his followers and recognize that everyone outside of this site (which is the VAST majority of players) that has heard about this is furious.[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher]Anon. Chill. Nobody cares. They did something, people bitched, they stopped. If you hate what Moba does and hate our guides, then cya, sorry your stay wasn't more enjoyable. Take the cross off your back, they didn't harm anyone or do any damage. Seriously, just save some face and stop.[/quote]

[quote=Anonandonandon][quote=throatslasher] Nobody cares. [/quote] Nothing says "Nobody cares" like 11 pages and constant replies. [quote] Seriously, just save some face and stop. [/quote] I lol'd. I think I'll pass on your suggestion, I don't see any "face" lost to be honest. I truly could not care less what vapid children like you think about me personally, I'm merely seeking to see a solution to this problem.[/quote]