"Moral justification is a powerful disengagement mechanism. Destructive conduct is made personally and socially acceptable by portraying it in the service of moral ends." - Albert Bandura
"Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our futures." - Edward Snowden
"Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our futures." - Edward Snowden
Cuz admittedly not every single individual on earth will have the chance to have sex. I know it sounds dumb but what would you do if you weighted 300 kg or were 1,20 meters tall?
because how else would police officers get to see their female coworkers dressed up like ****s on the streets?
but i dont see why its much of a problem, if someone is offering sex for X dollars and someone is willing to pay that why should they both get in trouble for it?
but i dont see why its much of a problem, if someone is offering sex for X dollars and someone is willing to pay that why should they both get in trouble for it?
Thanks to TheNamelessBard for the signature
Searz wrote:
I don't see why that wouldn't be relevant? Size and population obviously matters, but such things can be normalized.
Denmark has compared to Sweden, a neighboring country, 560% more human trafficking per total population. That's a pretty significant difference. Do you like that comparison better?
Yeah, but just contributing that to prostitution seems too simplistic as there's so many factors – geography being one. Denmark and Sweden also differ in a lot of ways; I'd like to see conclusive evidence that prostitution is to blame.
DillButt64 wrote:
but i dont see why its much of a problem, if someone is offering sex for X dollars and someone is willing to pay that why should they both get in trouble for it?
That's essentially my point. Even if legalising prostitution in place X would increase human trafficking, that doesn't mean that I condone that. I do, however, see absolutely no problem in prostitution itself.
The epic browser-crashes-while-your-post-is-finished phenomena strikes again -_-
NB, according to previous posts it may seem as if prostitution in the Netherlands is controlled in any way. It's not. There's no register, no certificate, no nothing. That's why it's easy to force someone in the business, hard to prevent trafficked people and practically impossible to do anything about people being forced in prostitution(which is illegal). If you have passport nor property there's no way you can just stand up for your own rights. Especially if you're locked up.
That's not a reason to allow it. Pedophiles can't have sex with children for their whole lives. That's not a reason to station some kids in a hotel and hang a cheap sign with "NEPO" in red neonletters behind a glass door.
I can see why you think that, but that's not up for discussion. It's a fact that, if prostitution is allowed, people will get forced in prostitution, which is against the universal declaration of human rights(article 3/4/5). If there's no way to prevent that other than forbidding prostitution, then so be it. If you have a different solution then I'm sure it would form a very interesting discussion.
That's essentially my point. Even if legalising prostitution in place X would increase human trafficking, that doesn't mean that I condone that. I do, however, see absolutely no problem in prostitution itself.
Fact is that thousands of people are getting their lives ruined in the current situation. If there's no other way to remedy this than forbidding prostitution, I think it's a sacrifice (of a principle) that must be made.
NB, according to previous posts it may seem as if prostitution in the Netherlands is controlled in any way. It's not. There's no register, no certificate, no nothing. That's why it's easy to force someone in the business, hard to prevent trafficked people and practically impossible to do anything about people being forced in prostitution(which is illegal). If you have passport nor property there's no way you can just stand up for your own rights. Especially if you're locked up.
TROLLing1999 wrote:
Cuz admittedly not every single individual on earth will have the chance to have sex. I know it sounds dumb but what would you do if you weighted 300 kg or were 1,20 meters tall?
DillButt64 wrote:
but i dont see why its much of a problem, if someone is offering sex for X dollars and someone is willing to pay that why should they both get in trouble for it?
GrandmasterD wrote:
That's essentially my point. Even if legalising prostitution in place X would increase human trafficking, that doesn't mean that I condone that. I do, however, see absolutely no problem in prostitution itself.
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
TROLLing1999 wrote:
Cuz admittedly not every single individual on earth will have the chance to have sex. I know it sounds dumb but what would you do if you weighted 300 kg or were 1,20 meters tall?
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Damn right it sounds dumb. Because it ****ing is. Holy ****.
That is a 100% male-centric view if I ever saw one.
DillButt64 wrote:
but i dont see why its much of a problem, if someone is offering sex for X dollars and someone is willing to pay that why should they both get in trouble for it?
Please go read some articles. It's very important to have a substantive discussion, otherwise the discussion goes nowhere. Here's a good one:
http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/human-rights/legalized-prostitution-human-trafficking-inflows
What you are mentioning has never been a problem, the problem is that it is heavily exploitable and often leads to terrible things like human trafficking (which is described in several of the articles linked).
GrandmasterD wrote:
Yeah, but just contributing that to prostitution seems too simplistic as there's so many factors – geography being one. Denmark and Sweden also differ in a lot of ways; I'd like to see conclusive evidence that prostitution is to blame.
I can't find any concrete numbers, but Sweden was likely close to the numbers of Denmark before it made the change (which happened around 2000). Now human trafficking is likely down to roughly a fourth of what it previously was. That should give a pretty clear indication of which system is more effective in regards to human trafficking in any case.
Study after study seems to reinforce this idea too. Of course there are benefits with legalization too, but the negatives are pretty massive and should not be overlooked.
Latest Legend wrote:
I can see why you think that, but that's not up for discussion. It's a fact that, if prostitution is allowed, people will get forced in prostitution, which is against the universal declaration of human rights(article 3/4/5). If there's no way to prevent that other than forbidding prostitution, then so be it. If you have a different solution then I'm sure it would form a very interesting discussion.
Fact is that thousands of people are getting their lives ruined in the current situation. If there's no other way to remedy this than forbidding prostitution, I think it's a sacrifice (of a principle) that must be made.
Fact is that thousands of people are getting their lives ruined in the current situation. If there's no other way to remedy this than forbidding prostitution, I think it's a sacrifice (of a principle) that must be made.
Yes, exactly.
Good comment.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Prostitution is one thing, human trafficking is another. Even those two are closely related to each other, we sould not identify the first with the latter.
Prostitution itself is not bad, as long as nobody is forced into it. The problems start once people start to become exploited. The key point is to control prostitution, not to forbid it entirely.
Unless we are actually talking about the moral/ethical aspect. In this case let me remind you that what is morally right for you, might not be the same for someone else.
Also the article's idea to copy Sweden's law is plain naive in the sense that every nation, not to say society, is way diffetent from the rest. Sweden for instance is a wealthy country with wealthy citizens and little immigration issues. It would be impossible to enforce the exact same law, let's say inGreece.
Prostitution itself is not bad, as long as nobody is forced into it. The problems start once people start to become exploited. The key point is to control prostitution, not to forbid it entirely.
Unless we are actually talking about the moral/ethical aspect. In this case let me remind you that what is morally right for you, might not be the same for someone else.
Also the article's idea to copy Sweden's law is plain naive in the sense that every nation, not to say society, is way diffetent from the rest. Sweden for instance is a wealthy country with wealthy citizens and little immigration issues. It would be impossible to enforce the exact same law, let's say inGreece.
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Ok.. Sure.
Go ahead and explain why prostitution is needed.