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Sweden's prostitution solution

Creator: Searz November 29, 2014 5:07am
GrandmasterD
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 5:36am | Report
Searz wrote:

I can't find any concrete numbers, but Sweden was likely close to the numbers of Denmark before it made the change (which happened around 2000). Now human trafficking is likely down to roughly a fourth of what it previously was. That should give a pretty clear indication of which system is more effective in regards to human trafficking in any case.
Study after study seems to reinforce this idea too. Of course there are benefits with legalization too, but the negatives are pretty massive and should not be overlooked.


I definitely don't disagree with that. However, I suspect that, in most cases, prostitution itself isn't the source of it, but rather on how it's managed. Generally speaking, I think prostitution is fine on its own, and should be allowed to exist as long people have the need for it. However, if you choose to legalise X then you better manage that properly, and I can't say that always happens.
Searz
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 7:31am | Report
I definitely don't disagree with that. However, I suspect that, in most cases, prostitution itself isn't the source of it, but rather on how it's managed. Generally speaking, I think prostitution is fine on its own, and should be allowed to exist as long people have the need for it. However, if you choose to legalise X then you better manage that properly, and I can't say that always happens.

The studies have shown that increased trafficking is a result of legalization of prostitution. If you think this is wrong you need to find flaws in the methods used to come to this conclusion, otherwise they stand as a far more reliable source of information than your comments and should be treated as such.
"Well, basically you should treat me like a prostitute." - TotalBiscuit
Searz
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Prostitution is one thing, human trafficking is another. Even those two are closely related to each other, we sould not identify the first with the latter.
ONE CAUSES THE OTHER. If you want to argue otherwise then please do - just as I asked GMD to - fault the methods used in the several studies showing that it does.
Quoted:
Unless we are actually talking about the moral/ethical aspect. In this case let me remind you that what is morally right for you, might not be the same for someone else.

When have I ever appealed to morals? "For the love of god, think of the children!"?
Nope, none of that.
What I think is pretty clearly wrong however is people being exploited. I think everybody can agree on that one, so let's not even discuss the moral ambiguity you seem to think is relevant.
Quoted:
Also the article's idea to copy Sweden's law is plain naive in the sense that every nation, not to say society, is way diffetent from the rest. Sweden for instance is a wealthy country with wealthy citizens and little immigration issues. It would be impossible to enforce the exact same law, let's say inGreece.

HAH, NO IMMIGRATION ISSUES YOU SAY?
That's one of the biggest issues in the country. The rise of "Sverigedemokraterna" alone should be clear evidence of that..

Why are you even discussing things you clearly haven't researched? It's okay to join the discussion with poor knowledge, but you need to make that clear, it's not okay to state things like fact when IN FACT you have no ****ing clue.
Go research and present valid arguments and I might start taking you seriously, but as of right now you're a ****ing joke.
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TROLLing1999
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 7:43am | Report
Searz wrote:

HAH, NO IMMIGRATION ISSUES YOU SAY?
That's one of the biggest issues in the country. The rise of "Sverigedemokraterna" alone should be clear evidence of that..


Wanna compare Sweden's immigration issues to Greece's, Italy's, Germany's, U.K.'s or U.S.A.'s?

Also what makes you think I adrress exclusively to you? If I want to talk about morality, then I will do so. I did not quote you or anything so this does not mean I am actually speaking to you.

And finally, prosecution is ONE OF THE CAUSES of human trafficking. A major one indeed but by no means the only one.

What's wrong with controlling prosecution instead of forbidding it entirely? You never answered on that. You only keep reffering to external sources without giving an answer to my and GMD's main point.
Searz
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 7:47am | Report
Wanna compare Sweden's immigration issues to Greece's, Italy's, Germany's, U.K.'s or U.S.A.'s?

YES, LET'S FOCUS ON THE THINGS WITH NO PROVEN RELEVANCE TO THE TOPIC. KEEP IT UP, YOU'RE STILL A ****ING JOKE.
Sweden has a higher net immigration rate than ALL OF THOSE COUNTRIES.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
Get the **** out of here.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 7:50am | Report
^point is legal or illegal?

Sweden is not even in wikipedia's list in this topic, pls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration

Also quoted from the article:

"The European Union is developing a common system for immigration and asylum and a single external border control strategy.[citation needed]

According to a BBC report, over 80% of the illegal immigrants entering the European Union now pass through Greece. Greek police are unable to work with their counterparts in Turkey because the Turkish army is responsible for their border.Recently, 14 illegal migrants drowned because of Turkish traffickers who sent them into the sea, telling them to slice the dinghies once they reach Greek waters. The Turkish newspaper Hürriyet published stories once in July 2004 and a second time in May 2006 that Hellenic Coast Guard ships were caught on film cruising as near as a few hundred meters off the Turkish coast and abandoning clandestine immigrants to the sea.

This practice allegedly resulted in the drowning of six people between Chios and Karaburun Peninsula on 26 September 2006 while three others disappeared and 31 were saved by Turkish gendarmes and fishermen.

A tough new EU immigration law detaining illegal immigrants for up to 18 months before deportation has triggered outrage across Latin America, with Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez threatening to cut off oil exports to Europe."
Searz
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep November 30, 2014 8:09am | Report
You've still yet to prove the connection to the topic at hand. Before that anything you write about immigration is STILL just as irrelevant as it was the first time you brought it up.
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It was an example of how societies/nations can differ from each other and it is indirectly connected with human trafficking. You just put too much emphasis on it.
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Searz wrote:

The studies have shown that increased trafficking is a result of legalization of prostitution. If you think this is wrong you need to find flaws in the methods used to come to this conclusion, otherwise they stand as a far more reliable source of information than your comments and should be treated as such.


Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalisation on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking.

The fact whether a particular something is legal or not is not enough; it's about how it is regulated and/or managed; it's about the boundaries. Either you didn't get that from my original comment, decided to ignore it, or you simply don't care and like to use bold letters to frighten others. Well, good job! I almost fell off my chair.

P.S. In case I didn't make it abundantly clear: I am not saying that these studies are lying, faulty, use improper methods, made use of animal trials, or are the source of all the hate, distrust, sadness, and pain in the world. I'm just saying that there's a difference between legalisation and regulation, and simply by presenting the before-and-after numbers, you can't prove it's either one or the other.
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Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalisation on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking.

The fact whether a particular something is legal or not is not enough; it's about how it is regulated and/or managed; it's about the boundaries. Either you didn't get that from my original comment, decided to ignore it, or you simply don't care and like to use bold letters to frighten others. Well, good job! I almost fell off my chair.

P.S. In case I didn't make it abundantly clear: I am not saying that these studies are lying, faulty, use improper methods, made use of animal trials, or are the source of all the hate, distrust, sadness, and pain in the world. I'm just saying that there's a difference between legalisation and regulation, and simply by presenting the before-and-after numbers, you can't prove it's either one or the other.


Well said! +Rep!

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