Sweden's prostitution solution

[quote=PsiGuard]Stick with the arguments and lose the personal attacks, Searz.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=GrandmasterD] Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalization on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking. [/quote] In Denmark it is legal to prostitute yourself but it is illegal to manage prostitution(being a pimp). Which means if you don't order it from the prostitute or from an advert she put somewhere then you're breaking the law and that's widely recognized. So if i'm a student, living off of study support(that's 200-450 dollars a month) and i wanted to make some extra cash, i could stumble over the fact that a 20 year old fit guy could earn upwards of 400 dollars an hour sucking dick. I could realize i liked to suck dick. Hell i could begin sucking dick for a living. Drop my studies and make it a full time job, hell i could make 20.000 dollars a month sucking dick(assuming a 50 hour work schedule). After a year of this i might buy the car i always wanted: [img=http://i.imgur.com/rp6SOYh.png] then my neighbor being the son of a bitch he is would call the police because danes don't like it when other danes get stuff they don't, that's just how Denmark works. The police would then show up to my house and ask me how i got the money for such a fancy new car, i'd tell them i sucked dick for it and give em my card because maybe new customers. "Well motherfucker, you didn't pay your taxes!" Then i'd go to jail for like 4 years because not paying your taxes in denmark is worse than murdering some guy on the street and that's just how Denmark works. TL;DR: Move to Denmark, suck dick, acquire dodge viper, go to jail. edit: there are also agencies paid for by the prostitutes themselves where you can order a prostitute or stripper or whatever.[/quote]

[quote=IPodPulse]This is getting good! [img=http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif][/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Pølsemanden][quote=GrandmasterD] Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalization on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking. [/quote] In Denmark it is legal to prostitute yourself but it is illegal to manage prostitution(being a pimp). Which means if you don't order it from the prostitute or from an advert she put somewhere then you're breaking the law and that's widely recognized. So if i'm a student, living off of study support(that's 200-450 dollars a month) and i wanted to make some extra cash, i could stumble over the fact that a 20 year old fit guy could earn upwards of 400 dollars an hour sucking dick. I could realize i liked to suck dick. Hell i could begin sucking dick for a living. Drop my studies and make it a full time job, hell i could make 20.000 dollars a month sucking dick(assuming a 50 hour work schedule). After a year of this i might buy the car i always wanted: [img=http://i.imgur.com/rp6SOYh.png] then my neighbor being the son of a bitch he is would call the police because danes don't like it when other danes get stuff they don't, that's just how Denmark works. The police would then show up to my house and ask me how i got the money for such a fancy new car, i'd tell them i sucked dick for it and give em my card because maybe new customers. "Well motherfucker, you didn't pay your taxes!" Then i'd go to jail for like 4 years because not paying your taxes in denmark is worse than murdering some guy on the street and that's just how Denmark works. TL;DR: Move to Denmark, suck dick, acquire dodge viper, go to jail.[/quote] Denmark sounds just like the Netherlands; we live in amazing countries. In my country, however, organised activities of such are legal as well, so you could even get your own career in sucking dick going and then eventually have a lot of employees to suck dick for you whilst you acquire dodge viper[b]s[/b]!11!!1 :O Aaaah, capitalism![/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=GrandmasterD]Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalisation on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking.[/quote]Don't try to diminish the value of a study when you have nothing to show yourself. It's like trying to figure out who ate the cookies and ignoring Timmy despite the cookie crumbs all over his clothes. Sure, we can't state with certainty that it was Timmy, but all signs seem to point toward him. Meanwhile you're blaming Tommy with no evidence to show for it. [quote]The fact whether a particular something is legal or not is not enough; it's about how it is regulated and/or managed; it's about the boundaries.[/quote]Of course it is, but I've seen nothing that shows this method of handling it is successful. Please show it to me, because otherwise your words are mere speculation and worth far less than a scientific study. [quote]I'm just saying that there's a difference between legalisation and regulation, and simply by presenting the before-and-after numbers, you can't prove it's either one or the other.[/quote] But it's blatantly obvious that this is not the case. Why? Because they'd hold no scientific value if they did. They would never pass peer review... [quote=Pølsemanden]In Denmark it is legal to prostitute yourself but it is illegal to manage prostitution(being a pimp). Which means if you don't order it from the prostitute or from an advert she put somewhere then you're breaking the law and that's widely recognized.[/quote] Denmark also had 450% higher human trafficking than Sweden despite the 40% larger population of Sweden. The number of people being trafficked went from 2500 to 500 in 5 years after Sweden made buying prostitutes illegal. Denmark had 2250 people trafficked the same year Sweden had 500. Which is what the thread is about.[/quote]

[quote=TROLLing1999]So, correct me if I am wrong, but your thesis is "I am not agreeing with this because there is no proper statistical data"? Did you by chance take any notice of the fact, that, while the article presents a shitton of statistical data, there is only one source? Also an article hosted in a site under the name "justicewomen" cannot easily be charachterised as objective. It's like buying a newspaper called "The Communist"(just an example, yields for whatever political view) and expect to be objectively informed. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying the author of the article has come up with all the numbers himself, but given the above, the article's reliability [b]COULD[/b] really be put into question.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]My point isn't wether or not that Denmark has higher human trafficking margins than sweden has. Because the numbers don't lie when glanced at, nor does the impressive percentage lowering. But in the same time period Sweden had much more legal migration from foreign countries thus lowering the demand for workforce by a margin. Which in conclusion should also lower the illegal human trafficking quota. And i think outlawing prostitution is a bad thing, i think it's a good way for people with no education to earn good money. And(at least in Denmark) Prostitutes albeit doing more drugs and drinking more alcohol feel less anxious and less distressed than the average Danish woman, i'm gonna assume the alcohol and drugs are from having a party life because well that's where you do drugs and drink alcohol. Source: http://politiken.dk/indland/ECE2184400/ny-undersoegelse-klinikprostituerede-foeler-sig-mindre-stressede-end-danske-kvinder/ It's in danish cuz fuck americans, rite? Edit: They also take less medication and ,,Like their work environment more"[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=TROLLing1999]Did you by chance take any notice of the fact, that, while the article presents a shitton of statistical data, there is only one source. Also an article hosted in a site under the name "justicewomen" cannot easily be charachterised as objective. It's like buying a newspaper called "The Communist"(just an example, yields for whatever political view) and expect to be objectively informed. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying the author of the article has come up with all the numbers himself, but given the above, the article's reliability [b]COULD[/b] really be put into question.[/quote] Did you by chance read the thread? Because I've pointed out several times the shaky ground that the original article stands on, but that I researched it and found one entire study and one source regarding another study that seemed to come to roughly the same conclusion. I even linked [url=http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/human-rights/legalized-prostitution-human-trafficking-inflows]this article[/url] earlier in the thread. It is far better at providing sources and a more neutral summary of the topic. [quote=Pølsemanden]My point isn't wether or not that Denmark has higher human trafficking margins than sweden has. Because the numbers don't lie when glanced at, nor does the impressive percentage lowering. But in the same time period Sweden had much more legal migration from foreign countries thus lowering the demand for workforce by a margin. Which in conclusion should also lower the illegal human trafficking quota.[/quote] Sure, I can see that being of relevance, but certainly not to the extent of a reducing it by almost 80%. It seems very likely a large part of the decrease is due to the prohibition of buying sex. And from the shorter parts of the study that I read this seems to be their conclusion too. (didn't read the entire thing, cuz 50 fucking pages D:) [quote]And i think outlawing prostitution is a bad thing, i think it's a good way for people with no education to earn good money. And(at least in Denmark) Prostitutes albeit doing more drugs and drinking more alcohol feel less anxious and less distressed than the average Danish woman[/quote] Of course it has good effects too, most importantly in improving the lives of the people working [b]legally[/b] in the profession, but you need to look at the negatives too, which so far sadly seem to outweigh the positives. Here's an important snippet from one of the articles: "The type of legalization of prostitution does not matter — it only matters whether prostitution is legal or not. Whether third-party involvement (persons who facilitate the prostitution businesses, i.e, “pimps”) is allowed or not does not have an effect on human trafficking inflows into a country. Legalization of prostitution itself is more important in explaining human trafficking than the type of legalization." So even thought the idea behind legalization of private prostitution is good, the reality is different.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Searz][quote=GrandmasterD]Are those studies conclusive on whether it is the legalisation on its own or maybe how that legalisation is managed? I don't know how Germany and Denmark handle prostitution, whether the laws around it are no different than those of a maintaining a supermarket or whether it's a tad stricter. I mean, if you're going to look at it that way, then you might as well declare that the legalisation of supermarkets promotes human trafficking.[/quote]Don't try to diminish the value of a study when you have nothing to show yourself. It's like trying to figure out who ate the cookies and ignoring Timmy despite the cookie crumbs all over his clothes. Sure, we can't state with certainty that it was Timmy, but all signs seem to point toward him. Meanwhile you're blaming Tommy with no evidence to show for it.[/quote] Your metaphor makes absolutely no sense, but no surprise because you don't seem to be reading, or understanding for that matter, what I've written. This has nothing to do with me blaming Tommy – I can't believe I'm actually using this garbage metaphor, but hey, anything to get your stubborn mind to read properly – no doubt Timmy's gotten fatter ever since we've introduced cookies into the house, but I do stand still and question if you've taken any measures to prevent Timmy from getting aforementioned snacks, or did you simply leave them just outside his room? I'm not questioning the validity of the statement that legalising prostitution increased human trafficking, I'm just wondering about the policies regarding this in those countries because I feel that's an important thing to look at. [img=http://i.imgur.com/WovCIU9.gif][/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=GrandmasterD]Your metaphor makes absolutely no sense[/quote] Then address the comment and ignore the bad metaphor. Don't elaborate on it. [img=http://replygif.net/i/586.gif] [quote]I'm not questioning the validity of the statement that legalising prostitution increased human trafficking, I'm just wondering about the policies regarding this in those countries because I feel that's an important thing to look at.[/quote] [b]Of course it is, I have never denied this[/b]. It's ironic how you blame me for not reading while I could very well do the same to you. But the bottom line is that all evidence points to a correlation between legalization of prostitution and human trafficking, just like countermeasures against trafficking has a correlation with human human trafficking, but in the opposite direction. Just because something different reduces the number does not mean that the number doesn't increase because of something else. Or to use the terrible metaphor again: Jeanine baking cookies does not mean that the number of cookies doesn't go down when Timmy eats cookies. (the numbers are reversed since cookies are good and trafficked humans are bad) :D[/quote]