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Graves Ulti a little lack-lustre...

Creator: The Overmyynd June 21, 2012 11:11pm
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The Overmyynd
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Hey, its me with kind of an embarrassing question. I play ad on occasion (mostly when i am forced to >.<) and one of the admittedly small group of characters i have for the particular role is Graves. I do fine in lane with him, im good at CS, have decent harass, still working out the finer points of Smoke Screen, but i'm getting there. The problem starts really when i hit level 6, and i feel like other AD champs just kind of start to out damage me. Even though i get all the power items, Infinity Edge, the bloodthrister, Last Whisper, hell sometimes even a Madred's Bloodrazor if i have a darius solo top and the enemy team is stacking health to combat his ulti. But honestly, it feels like when i fire Collateral Damage into a crowd of enemies, the chunk i take out of their healthbars is... embarassingly low, especially when compared to other spells like Chum the Waters, Primordial Burst, Noxian Guillotine, et cetera. Even other spells that have their damage reduced per target because they are meant to hit multiple targets like Requiem seem to do much more damage than Graves ulti. So i suppose my question is, am i doing anything wrong, or is Graves supposed to be a sit back and poke at everyone in a team fight bit by bit kind of character? Or should i have more arpen on my runepage, instead of AD marks and quints?

Thanks in advance,
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Lugignaf
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It's mainly because you're going to be hitting the tank line with the initial burst.

Everything after that, is hitting for about 75% of the intended damage and that's before resists. If you're building Madred's Bloodrazor like you said instead of the standard AD setup of The Bloodthirster+ Infinity Edge+ Last Whisper, of course you're not going to be doing much.

When you compare it to Primordial Burst and Noxian Guillotine, of course it's going to do less damage. The former scales off of the opponent's AP and the latter can deal up to 200% of it's tooltip. It's also not effected by resists.

AD, especially on Graves, is way more important than ArP. Especially with so many 1:1+ ratios.
utopus
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I think it's reasonable that Collateral Damage doesn't do a heck of a ton of damage. AD carries are supposed to deal the majority of damage with their auto attacks (with graves, you may also consider mincing in your Buckshot). But i mean, I've always thought that Collateral Damage Was meant to pick off enemy runners, kinda like Ace in the Hole.

Correct me if i'm wrong though. Graves is so stupidly overpowered in solo que that i refuse to play him ever.
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Errrr the ratio is 1.4 per bonus AD, pardon my French but what the hell are you expecting out of an ulti?

You want an AoE Viegar ult? Because for every bonus AD you get, you're actually getting MORE damage than every bonus AP picked up for Veigar ulti.

AND it's AoE. I mean hey, we can all dream of walking up to the teamfight, everybody full HP, pressing, "R" and hearing QUADRA KILL! And the only reason it wasn't a penta was because you missed the support off to the side, but let's be realistic here, Graves ulti is one of the hardest hitting AoE skills in the game.
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You are meant to deal damage with AA, AD carries' damage spells are here to poke/finish/burst/aoe, not to deal damage. AP and skill based champ are meant to deal damage with their spells, not the AD carry (except graves in fact). His has a long range.

Graves' ult can be used as a finisher if the enemy is running under his turret or as an help to damage their squishies that you can't reach because it would be dangerous to be in the middle of the fight to have them in range.

Let's say your anticarry toplaner mate is starting melting down their AD carry : if you have a clear way to throw your ult to aoe the AD, maybe the support and even the AP, then throw that **** to help your mate and keep doing your role @ dealing damage while staying safe.

You can even ult their melee champs if a squishy burst champ is there (Talon, kat, kassadin, etc). Kill their frontline faster than they kill yours can be an option.

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If you think that Graves has lackluster burst spells for an AD carry, you're in for a bad time :P

That said, I think everyone else pretty much covered it.
Madred's are especially bad for him because he has so many good AD scaling spells. If you have tons of money to spend and don't need to build defensive, just build more bloodthirsters.
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especially when compared to other spells like Chum the Waters, Primordial Burst, Noxian Guillotine, et cetera. Even other spells that have their damage reduced per target because they are meant to hit multiple targets like Requiem seem to do much more damage than Graves ulti.


Holy ****, an AD carry does less damage with his skills than a burst assassin AP carry?

STOP THE PRESSES, MY MIND HAS BEEN BLOWN.

:P
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I actually always feel this way too, lol, I don't know what I'm doing wrong!

Like if I hit 6 and try to kill someone my ult just feels like "oh that tickled" and they get away. It seems like Ashe arrow does more damage and stuns / slows in an aoe. Caitlyn ult does more damage, but hey that is single target.

Do you guys have any tips for using his ult properly then? You guys can say that it does a ton of damage, but based on my personal experience it never seems to.
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Mowen wrote:
Like if I hit 6 and try to kill someone my ult just feels like "oh that tickled" and they get away.


This. 10000x this.

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Tried using this is ARAM on PBE yesterday.

Out of ~5 low health targets, only 1 died :/
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