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Making Sion more viable

Creator: NicknameMy
March 11, 2013 1:04pm
41 posts page 1 of 5 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Making Sion more viable
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 11, 2013 1:04pm | Report
I recently got some ideas to make Sion more viable. He should be viable at top as AD, jungle as AD and mid as AP, like actually intendend. For a full view of changes pls visit:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...icknameMy#Sion

1. Base Attack Speed and Bonus Attack Speed per level increased to 0.672 (+2.98%) from 0.625 (+1.63%).

This is by far the biggest problem AD Sion currently has. I don't understand Riot here at all. Why give a champ which should rely on his auto attacks one of the worst base and scaling attack speeds in the game? This should fix that problem and his jungling should be now a great way to play him.

2. Q: Cryptic Gaze (Rework):
Cryptic Strike: Active: Sion strikes towards his target with his cryptic force, dealing magic damage and force his target to flee in terror from Sion for 1 second.
Range increased to 650 from 550.

This is something that every meele ad needs nowadays, a gap closer. He doesn't have cc-immunity (Poppy, Olaf) or a gap closer at all atm, which means he has to walk up with his rather slow MS. This makes you so easy kiteable it is ridiculous. You also can use it tactical in order to use the terryfying right (same as heca ult). But the change is a little nerf aswell. Now you lost a defense tool for that. The range change is also important, because without it, he wouldn't get near enough in order to dash.

3. R: Cannibalism:
Now grants 20% / 30% / 40% movement speed if active aswell.
AoE Heal Radius increased from 200 to 600.

First, the heal, idk why riot made it so small. The basic idea behind Sion is to run into a fight and heal his team. How the **** should that be possible with 200 AoE? 600 is there a more team oriented number. The additional movement speed should help AD against kiting, because nearly every meele AD has a movement speed steroid. It also makes this ability more usefull for AP Sion to reposition himself.

4. W: Death's Caress:
Shield strength ratios changed from (+ 90% AP) to (+ 80% bonus AD) (+ 40% AP).

This should differ the shield between AP and AD. For AD, it should be a real shield which blocks damage, but deals only minor damage. For AP, the damage is more important than the shield itself. This is a needed change in order to make both forms viable while not one of them OP.

5. Mana Cost:
Q: Cost: 100 Mana reduced to 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana
W: Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 Mana reduced to 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana

This is aswell a change which should differ AP from AD. As we all know, Sion has one of the lowest mana pools while having one of the highest mana costs. This should fix that old flaw. As AD, you will max enrage first, so you will a great effect on your mana earlygame. As AP, you will max Q and W first, which means you will have less mana avaiable. This limits your spamming power in the lane, while you still have more mana to use.

I know, all changes together could make Sion at the end OP. But some of them are really needed to take his kite and put it into the S3-century.


Update:



Some changes:

Cryptic Strike:
Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 90% AP)
Range: 600
Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 Mana

Death Caress:
Shield Strength: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 40% AD) (+ 80% AP) (+ 5% bonus health) (special thanks to hundredmanslayer)
Magic Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 90% AP)
Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 Mana

Enrage:
Health Gained per kill: 2 / 2 / 2.5 / 2.5 / 3

Cannibalism:
Movement Speed: 15% / 20% / 25%
Now adds 1/4 of the lifesteal amount as spellvamp.(thanks to Meiyjhe)
AoE Heal Radius: 400
Duration reduced to 10 / 12 / 14 seconds from 20 seconds.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Rhollback » March 11, 2013 3:00pm | Report
Besides the R range I kinda disagree.
I thnk Sion is pretty viable as is, at least I've seen people do extremely well with him in Gold+

Thanks to the very talented The_Nameless_Bard
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 11, 2013 3:14pm | Report
Well, look at this:

http://www.lolking.net/champions/sion#statistics

ATM: 43% win ratio, like, one of the worst. Only 1.21% picked at higher elo even less. Also worse KDA than the average.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 12, 2013 10:30am | Report
Updated infos
He is gonna kill you!!!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Meiyjhe » March 12, 2013 11:31am | Report
Sion can be played 2 effective ways, offtank AD or full AP
In order to make both more viable, all skills need to be useful for both AD as AP.

Q-spell
I believe his Q is fine the way it is. With or without AP, the early damage is already very high and the stun itself is very effective. Though, the mana cost is very high, maybe it would be better to reduce it on lower ranks.

W-spell
The spell as it is right now, is only effective for AP and barely of any use of AD.
But I believe you have made a good point with this spell.
It should scale off a bit from AD aswell. However, the shield needs to be with full power for AP, because else it will break down before you can explode your shield.
I think the shield should be working from total AD instead of bonus AD.

E-spell
This spell is also fine the way it is. For AD Sion it will grant a huge AD buff, and for AP Sion, farming will be even more efficient due to the big *** health you get from it.
The bonus health is already very strong. I get around 700 or more bonus health each game I play Sion, which is a lot actually.

R-spell
The way it is right now, it is useless for AP Sion, there are games that I max this ability at lvl 18 due to it's low effectiveness. For AD Sion on the other hand, it makes you really powerful.
So 1 thing you mentioned I found really interesting and might be very helpful indeed, which is adding movement speed to it. Sion really can use this high bonus movement speed, because if he does not get it, he can be easily kited when his Q is on CD.

However:
This spell would be way to OP as AD Sion, thus should be balanced, besides, it would look to much like a Yi ultimate :O
Since I do not like changing to much to this spell, I have a simple yet effective solution which is: Spell Vamp.
Instead of only giving AS and lifesteal from this spell, you will also get spell vamp and maybe even CDR from this spell, so this is also very useful AP-wise.



The basic concept of your ideas are good, but I think mine are better >:D
Change is gooooood
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Nighthawk » March 12, 2013 2:11pm | Report
No. Increasing his Q range and damage only makes him the best laner in the game, AGAIN. They nerfed AP sion for a reason. Making his W shield off of AD and a ****ty amount of AP is a terrible idea, ideally it should be the bigger number between 100% of AP or 80% of total AD, like how WW Q was. His E is fine. The ult changes are ok, but 40% MS is way to much. It should be 5/10/15% imo, and that's still the highest MS modifier in the game besides boots, afaik.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 12, 2013 4:09pm | Report
Did you read the updates already? For example, the MS there is 15/20/25 %, the shield has different scalings and the AP-part should be fixed aswell. Also, you notice the Q change is a two-sided sword? While you now have a dash with a bit more range, now you have to go all in if you want to combo. This means, the enemy jungler can gank you easier after you used your combo.

Also, there are a handfull of champs with ultimates which give more MS. For example Highlander, Sadism or Tag Team.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Pheyniex » March 13, 2013 8:00am | Report
Sion is fine. you just turned him op. He simply isn't either AD nor AP. he just has 2 skills that like AP and other 2 that like AD. is whole kit just says "focus me, please" and that is only valid while smurfing.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » March 13, 2013 8:50am | Report
If Sion is fine, why riot stated his kit sucks an wants to rework him, why he has one of the lowest pick and win ratios and why he is never seen in any tournaments?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Pheyniex » March 13, 2013 9:11am | Report
i assume you only read what you wanted.
for casual play, smurf play, he is fine. his abilities just don't add up.

you just made him op, while keeping his kit.

List of champions unseen in tornaments recently: Annie, Brand, Cassiopeia, Corki, Mundo, Fiddlesticks, Fiora, Fizz, Galio, Gangplank, Heimerdinger, Janna, Karma, Kennen, Leblanc, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Morgana, Nautilus, Nocturne, Pantheon, Poppy, Rengar, Sejuani, Shaco, Shyvana, Sivir, Skarner, Soraka, Talon, Trundle, Udyr, Urgot, Veigar, Viktor, Warwick, Wukong, Ziggs...

riot has a ****ton of work to do, then.


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