Rushing items v.s. a strong base.

[quote=Searz]IE is incredibly strong even without crit. Rushing it is not the best idea though (except on Ashe).[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed][quote=Searz] IE is incredibly strong even without crit. Rushing it is not the best idea though (except on Ashe). [/quote] Yeah the AD is nice, but if you don't have a crit item or follow it up soon the passive is kinda lost. Though you agree with the whole rushing idea in general. While I will admit there are exceptions to the rule much like you and Xenenis said.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]It's only useful to rush on Ashe (and maybe Tryn) because of her (and his obviously) passive, most other crit champions don't have any natural crit increasing passives/abilities.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] [quote=B-Wong]There are core items but you have to always be willing to adapt you build one way or another. [/quote] And generally tanks aren't rushing warmog's, no? why rush a late game item? you have almost no crit chance, so IE is basically worthless...rushing TBC would be a better choice if you wanted a BF sword item, seriously. [/quote] I was going to contradict you, but then I crunched some numbers (feel free to check these, I used the LoLwiki database on Ashe v. Ashe values) Bers. Greaves + Infinity Edge @ 18 on Ashe against 71 armor target (58% Damage): 1.574 AS 177.6 AD 25% Crit Chance 250% Crit Damage 20 attacks in 13 seconds (i picked 13 seconds because it seemed to mesh nicely with both attack speeds) 103 Damage per attack 258 Damage per crit 5 Crits 15 Normal attacks 1290 damage in crits 1545 damage in normal attacks 2835 total damage Bers. Greaves + The Black Cleaver @ 18 on Ashe against 1 hit 71 armor (58% Damage), 1 hit 56 armor (64% Damage), 1 hit 41 (71% Damage), 22 hits 26 armor (79% Damage) target: 1.952 AS 152.6 AD 0% Crit Chance 25 attacks in 13 seconds 89 Damage on hit 1 98 Damage on hit 2 108 Damage on hit 3 121 Damage on 22 hits 2982 total damage So, if I'm correct, the black cleaver actually does deal a tad more damage to start off with than infinity edge. But searz is right, I-Edge is NOT dependent on crit from other items to be useful. Personally, I rush I-Edge on Tristana because she has natural AS and I'd rather have the hard hits for poke damage in-lane (if I get it that fast) than an item that mostly benefits by consistently attacking (which is much easier for ashe because of her [[frost shot]]).[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@ the people saying Infinity Edge is useless: You baddie. :P Infinity Edge still has 20% critical chance. Infinity Edge is not a half-item. It's made to work alone. That 20% still counts, making it the best item to rush on Ashe. It doesn't matter that you have passive critical or not, the innate critical on IE pays for itself. Riot even changed the critical-hit system so criticals are more consistent with gambler's fallacy. All I'm seeing here in your arguments is, you have not been rushing IE, so you don't understand how good it can be. Any AD ranged carry scales better with a core AD item first. It's not up for debate. It means you can last-hit better, hit harder, and can't be kited as easily. The only item that could possibly be a viable alternative is Black Cleaver, as it's 45 total armor reduction means you can doing more damage when criticals aren't factored in. Rushing any other items means you're probably building attack speed. And building attack speed means you're going to get kited. :P[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I am not saying it's useless without crit. It's a great item, but its passive does rely entirely on your ability to crit, plus it's the second most expensive item in the game. I'm not saying no one should buy it, what I'm saying is that rushing it is stupid. If you get shutdown at all you won't be able to afford it, you'll buy gold regen items and we all know those take a while to pay for themselves... I already said the best alternative is to rush TBC, so you don't need to tell me.[/quote]

[quote=Atheb]IE got buffed itself and a lot more through b.f. cost reduce. i rush it with gangplank, he is able to because of parrley <3 in conclusion in depends on three things: [b]your champ: [/b]some champs lose their edge if you dont rush their items: i rush madreds bloodrazor on kog maw and IE on gangplank. on some mages a RoA but i dont consider this a great rush as it gives you effective lane items that are not that expesive and it wont leave you that vulnerable in most cases. some champs dont need this. on tanks and even more offtanks i prefer building a solid base so i am vulnarable at no time while still beeing effective. renekton, mundo, jarvan f.e. [b]your playstyle[/b]: some like to have a fluent solid gameplay, exploring the weakness phase of their enemys. some like to take risks and get ahead of their enemys as fast as possible. [b]how the game is going[/b]: you own everything and port to base with a shitload of gold? well feel free to get this IE, Bloodrazor, Deathcap whatsoever you are getting denied, need to fight a lot, cant get kills? rushing wont work that well, buy these cheap effective items to keep your gameplay going.[/quote]

[quote=Ya1232]I see everyone arguing, but arguing the same point I stated at the beginning >.<[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] what I'm saying is that rushing it is stupid. [/quote] And what the others are saying is it's not stupid. :D Saying it's stupid is stupid. :D Having the crit passive, and just having it pays for itself on any champion who can be benefit more then others off criticals. It doesn't matter if you don't crit more then 20% of the time. Criting at all makes it worthwhile.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=JunSupport] [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] what I'm saying is that rushing it is stupid. [/quote] And what the others are saying is it's not stupid. :D Saying it's stupid is stupid. :D Having the crit passive, and just having it pays for itself on any champion who can be benefit more then others off criticals. It doesn't matter if you don't crit more then 20% of the time. Criting at all makes it worthwhile. [/quote] And what happens when you get shutdown? Rushing a nearly 4000 gp item just doesn't make sense imo. I usually get it after I get another less expensive item, so that I have something to fall back on if I get shutdown. BTW I specifically said (or meant to say) that crit champions rushing it makes sense... You can disagree with me all you want, but telling me I'm stupid for having a different opinion than you is, well, stupid. I don't care if you disagree with me, but I'm entitled to my own opinion also.[/quote]