Spellthief's -> Frostfang upgrade: Worth?

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]because you use [[eye of the storm]] on yourself and then hit them really hard with a few autos...it's fun. also that list is missing [[Karma]].[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]I don't ever buy Claim; there's better sources of CDR. I do, almost always, upgrade [[Spellthief's Edge]] (ASAP) to [[Frostfang]] as it almost doubles the gold income whilst increasing your damage output.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]If for no other reason then because Ancient Coin is a bad item? Spellthief's on Janna is good, much better than AC anyway. And I too always upgrade ST to FF on my first back. It doesn't sacrifice much vision I don't think.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Is the slowing active from Claim simply not that good? I mean, I've used it decently well enough so surely there's some benefit, right?[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Lugignaf]Is the slowing active from Claim simply not that good? I mean, I've used it decently well enough so surely there's some benefit, right?[/quote] Well, it was kind of good as a CDR item, but now Mikael's grants CDR as well so you might as well rush that.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]The stats (particularly CD) are ok, and I think it's good that it's AoE, but the damage and duration aren't anything special. Can help in chases and escapes, but so can Talisman, and it's kind of much better mid-late game I think. Also the projective is a little too slow, imo.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=MissMaw]The stats (particularly CD) are ok, and I think it's good that it's AoE, but the damage and duration aren't anything special. Can help in chases and escapes, but so can Talisman, and it's kind of much better mid-late game I think. Also the projective is a little too slow, imo.[/quote] Yeah, even after all the changes, the active is still fairly underwhelming.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=GrandmasterD]I don't ever buy Claim; there's better sources of CDR. I do, almost always, upgrade [[Spellthief's Edge]] (ASAP) to [[Frostfang]] as it almost doubles the gold income whilst increasing your damage output.[/quote] But by how much does it really increase your damage output, and is the extra income generation really worth it? You're taking the most gold starved role in the game, and investing 500 gold to get at best a 70% increase in gold generation (max 7GP10 w. [[spellthief's edge]] vs 12GP10 max w. [[frostfang]]), +50% increased tribute damage (10->15), +3mp5, and +5 AP. Wouldn't that gold be better spent on something like a faster [[sightstone]] for increased safety from ganks, a [[boots of mobility]] for greater roaming power, or money spent towards your first utility item?[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=utopus][quote=GrandmasterD]I don't ever buy Claim; there's better sources of CDR. I do, almost always, upgrade [[Spellthief's Edge]] (ASAP) to [[Frostfang]] as it almost doubles the gold income whilst increasing your damage output.[/quote] But by how much does it really increase your damage output, and is the extra income generation really worth it? You're taking the most gold starved role in the game, and investing 500 gold to get at best a 70% increase in gold generation (max 7GP10 w. [[spellthief's edge]] vs 12GP10 max w. [[frostfang]]), +50% increased tribute damage (10->15), +3mp5, and +5 AP. Wouldn't that gold be better spent on something like a faster [[sightstone]] for increased safety from ganks, a [[boots of mobility]] for greater roaming power, or money spent towards your first utility item?[/quote] The only spellthief support I really play would be Vel'Koz, and I feel that opening with damage and mana regeneration is better as it allows you to establish lane control. [[Sightstone]] is good to rush, no doubt, however I feel that it's not really that necessary.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]If I have 800 gold after first recall, I usually check which jungler the enemy has. If the enemy has something like [[lee sin]] or mobile jungler with bottom able to set up a good gank --> I go for [[sightstone]] because I will most likely need the wards. This is the case in most of the games. However if I have exactly just enough gold for [[sightstone]], enemy jungler is less likely going to gank bot lane and I wouldn't have money for anything else (like potions), I go for [[spellthief's edge]], get few potions, pink and wards.[/quote]