"I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m ****ing ******ed but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache†and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding." - Guuse
"uh, I identify as counterstrike and I find this globally offensive" - ???
"uh, I identify as counterstrike and I find this globally offensive" - ???
Pheonix is far superior... Did you see RS vs TSM? .. RS udyr maxed Pheonix, bear and turtle instead of tiger and still dominated the entire game... friggin unbelievable, I never thought that pheonix udyr would be so strong..
its sort of targeted to:
It seems to me like Phoenix is the superior choice right now. Tiger has monstrous early ganks, but Phoenix gets just as monstrous just because it's ~20% faster in the jungle.
Maxing Phoenix and leaving Tiger at rank 3 also seems best. I've heard some people are starting with Phoenix, but later ranking Tiger, but I don't think that's good anymore. Opinions?
Pheonix also has monstrous ganks, I would go as far to say BETTER early game ganks than tiger. Also people are just sticking to pheonix but revolving around a tanky/AS build
It seems to me like Phoenix is the superior choice right now. Tiger has monstrous early ganks, but Phoenix gets just as monstrous just because it's ~20% faster in the jungle.
Maxing Phoenix and leaving Tiger at rank 3 also seems best. I've heard some people are starting with Phoenix, but later ranking Tiger, but I don't think that's good anymore. Opinions?
Pheonix also has monstrous ganks, I would go as far to say BETTER early game ganks than tiger. Also people are just sticking to pheonix but revolving around a tanky/AS build
Searz wrote:
Maxing Phoenix and leaving Tiger at rank 3 also seems best. I've heard some people are starting with Phoenix, but later ranking Tiger, but I don't think that's good anymore. Opinions?
I've also heard the suggestion of having Lvl 5 Tiger and Phoenix, leaving Turtle and Bear at Lvl 4 apiece - so they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.
The general agreement is that Phoenix is faster in the Jungle, but with less burst for ganks; while Tiger is slightly slower in the jungle but has more "OMG BUUUUURST" for ganks.
- Tiger burst has an enormous psychological power - AFAIK it's one of the best early game bursts available, and having a chunk of your HP disappear that quickly from one single source can and will make people think twice about sticking around for another dose.
- The super-fast Phoenix clear time means that you can be ganking a lane while you're a level, maybe 2, higher than the people on the lane. Which is of course a ridiculous advantage that early in the game.
- And remember that for the Phoenix DPS to work, you need them to hold still, while Tiger DoT only needs the one attack. Can be problematic with slippery characters like Wukong, Shaco, etc.
Not much there in the way of numbers, I'm afraid, but imo they're things that need to be taken into account when deciding which is better.
thats not quite true since phoenix stance deals about as much dmg as tiger its just less frontloaded (gotta hit all ticks T_T) and you get extra ap/ad from phoenix, so i dont rly see any rason to max anything else first
greez sam
greez sam
samgoeslol wrote:
thats not quite true since phoenix stance deals about as much dmg as tiger its just less frontloaded (gotta hit all ticks T_T) and you get extra ap/ad from phoenix, so i dont rly see any rason to max anything else first
greez sam
...?
Although I'd forgotten about the bonus AD/AP from Phoenix. The AP doesn't do much for actual Phoenix DPS (the ratios suck from what I remember), but the AD is useful.
In fact, does that bonus AD from Phoenix do anything for Tiger stance? More something to worry about mid-late game, perhaps.
Kind of just boils down to Pure Tank Udyr vs. Tanky DPS Udyr. Currently I prefer Phoenix > Tiger because I play Solo top Udyr and WANT to push the lane, and Phoenix does a better AoE job of that. If I get any real dps items at all then Tiger stance is probably better. It's down to personal preference, really.
Searz wrote:
I've accounted for EVERYTHING (yes, that means the AD and AP from P stance too) in my rough comparisons of DPS.
Tiger WILL HAVE 10 to 15% more single target DPS.
Fair enough.
Nighthawk wrote:
Kind of just boils down to Pure Tank Udyr vs. Tanky DPS Udyr. Currently I prefer Phoenix > Tiger because I play Solo top Udyr and WANT to push the lane, and Phoenix does a better AoE job of that. If I get any real dps items at all then Tiger stance is probably better. It's down to personal preference, really.
Fair comment. Personal preference counts for a lot, after all.
Lane Udyr is in my experience a different beast to jungle Udyr though - Laning you have to worry about pushing the lane or not, while a jungler doesn't have to worry about that sort of thing so much; Junglers have to juggle being able to clear the creep camps quickly and efficiently while still having enough single target DPS to pull off successful ganks - which is where the whole Phoenix vs Tiger debate seems to have come from in the first place.
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1/14/15 masteries
Cloth+pots start
Aggressive path, with start at wolves.
It seems to me like Phoenix is the superior choice right now. Tiger has monstrous early ganks, but Phoenix gets just as monstrous just because it's ~20% faster in the jungle.
Maxing Phoenix and leaving Tiger at rank 3 also seems best. I've heard some people are starting with Phoenix, but later ranking Tiger, but I don't think that's good anymore. Opinions?