Click to open network menu
Join or Log In
Mobafire logo

Join the leading League of Legends community. Create and share Champion Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

's Forum Avatar

Your graphing resource.

Creator: Searz January 25, 2011 3:31pm
Tsiphon
<Member>
Tsiphon's Forum Avatar
Posts:
6
Joined:
Jan 20th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 20, 2011 5:30am | Report
What about the dodge/armor debate when factoring in ninja tabi? Both with and without masteries?
Searz
<Ancient Member>
Searz's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
13418
Joined:
Jun 6th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 20, 2011 5:54am | Report
So, dodge seals versus armor seals with Ninja Tabi?
"He cooked cake." - MrCuddowls

"Oh forget it, I have nothing to hid, I admit it, 12 hours of every single day of my life ever since I was eleven years old have been anal sex with canoes" - MrCuddowls
Tsiphon
<Member>
Tsiphon's Forum Avatar
Posts:
6
Joined:
Jan 20th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 21, 2011 11:51am | Report
Searz wrote:

So, dodge seals versus armor seals with Ninja Tabi?



Yeah. I'm trying to figure out how to make the graphs myself :P any pointers?

Also, when reading the graphs, like with deathcap versus void, it looks like deathcap kicks *** until they have 90 MR, to which void takes over by far.
or with
%MrP build vs Full MrP build on Kassadin, you say that that the conclusion points to Abyssal being better than hourglass, which wasn't part of that particular graph. Maybe you mean Void staff??

And, from your graph, I would conclude that %MRpen (like abyssal) loses to flat Mpen, which makes sense because void targets one opponent while the % is for the whole team, buffing them, and making your force pulse his everyone for the bonus damage. Thoughts? Would a void staff really kick that much more *** to compensate for the MR bonus lost as well as the team MR reduction.

Lastly, by full magic pen, do you mean flat numbers? I assume you do since you're comparing "full MPen versus %Mpen"

Thanks :)
Trojan995
<Veteran>
Trojan995's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
2510
Joined:
Oct 4th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 21, 2011 12:00pm | Report
I was wondering if you could compare the effectiveness of mpen quints v. flat AP quints on nunu's ice ball, using mpen marks and scaling AP glyphs.
Click for one of my awesome builds!
Thanks to Mowen, WrATHofVuLK, and AlexanPT for the signatures! Check out Tristana: The Lane Game, Maokai: The Chu8 Way, and Twisted Fate: Card Games!
Tsiphon
<Member>
Tsiphon's Forum Avatar
Posts:
6
Joined:
Jan 20th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 21, 2011 1:09pm | Report
Also what on earth did you use for formulas on the last comparison between dodge and armor. I can think of a way to compare the two.
Searz
<Ancient Member>
Searz's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
13418
Joined:
Jun 6th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 21, 2011 1:52pm | Report
Dodge:
100/(100+x)*0.9325
Armor:
100/(100+x+12.69)

It's basically {damage*the chance to hit} with dodge damage reduction.
"If someone is ****, you point at them and declare "****!". Because this is the internet." - Serpentiferous

"The Internet: where men are men, women are men, and little girls are the FBI." - ???
bodanger
<Member>
bodanger's Forum Avatar
Posts:
111
Joined:
Feb 11th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 21, 2011 2:13pm | Report
I hate to be down on anyone willing to take their time and try and theory craft, but a lot of your graphs have no actual application.

This is because in any in game scenario there are going to be tons of variables at play that you don't take into account. (and really can't be taken into account for every scenario)

For exapmle:
Crit, AD, and ArP, all work synergistically with each other and with attack speed.
The more of one stat you have the better the other stats become in raising your damage.
In the end which one is better to get depends on how much of the other stats you already have.

Since these stats are going to vary widely between different champs with different items the info really isn't useful.

Or even look at the AP vs MrP example you use with fiddle
Are you taking into account the MrP from his passive?
How does the difference in damage grow when if you don't use void staff in the example.

What you are going to find is that the less you have of a stat (AP vs MrP) the more beneficial getting it will be to you damage.

For example, test AP vs MrP runes
1 graph get sorc boots, haunting guise,abyssal scepter, voidstaff.
vs
6x Rabadon's Deathcap (or anything with significantly higher AP than the first build)
Searz
<Ancient Member>
Searz's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
13418
Joined:
Jun 6th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 22, 2011 5:16am | Report
@bodanger
Almost all the graphs compare damage items to each-other. How is it a bad thing to show how items compare in terms of damage?

bodanger wrote:
1 graph get sorc boots, haunting guise,abyssal scepter, voidstaff.
vs
6x Rabadon's Deathcap (or anything with significantly higher AP than the first build)

Come up with a good comparison and I'll graph it. We all know that stacking unique bonuses is stupid.

Quoted:
Or even look at the AP vs MrP example you use with fiddle
Are you taking into account the MrP from his passive?

I include his passive in the calculation, yes.
"I saw [Twilight: Eclipse] in theaters with a girl I was dating at the time. I spent more time staring at my toes and wiggling them than I did watching this abomination. When Edward proposed to Blank Face, I finally looked up with a revelation.
I blurted out loud, in a dead silent theater full of teenage girls on opening night "Wait a minute, Edward has no blood flow. How does he get an erection?" I heard several men laughing, and had several girls turn and stare at me.

I did not get laid that night." - Berengier817
bodanger
<Member>
bodanger's Forum Avatar
Posts:
111
Joined:
Feb 11th, 2011
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 22, 2011 9:08pm | Report
Searz wrote:

@bodanger
Almost all the graphs compare damage items to each-other. How is it a bad thing to show how items compare in terms of damage?

No its not a bad thing.
What I'm trying to say is that those numbers are completely dependent on the stats a champ has at the time.

If a champ has lots of ArP and AD and no crit, then the effectiveness of crit goes way up.
If a champ has lots of Crit, Crit damage, AD, goes way up.
If a champ has lots of AD and crit, and no Arp, the effectiveness of Arp goes way up.

There are also alot of other variables like AD ratios, weather spells can crit etc.

Searz wrote:


Come up with a good comparison and I'll graph it. We all know that stacking unique bonuses is stupid.


This was just an extreme example to illustrate the point that how effective one kind of stat is depends on how much of other stats you already have.

Yes it is stupid to just stack 1 stat, but for the same reasoning it's also not a good idea to say that one kind of stat is all around better than others.

There will always be a point were you have so much of one stat that getting some other stat is a better option.
Searz
<Ancient Member>
Searz's Forum Avatar
Show more awards
Posts:
13418
Joined:
Jun 6th, 2010
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 3:51am | Report
bodanger wrote:

What I'm trying to say is that those numbers are completely dependent on the stats a champ has at the time.

If a champ has lots of ArP and AD and no crit, then the effectiveness of crit goes way up.
If a champ has lots of Crit, Crit damage, AD, goes way up.
If a champ has lots of AD and crit, and no Arp, the effectiveness of Arp goes way up.

That is taken into account. I compare different combinations of stats in terms of damage. I never overstack on any stat.

Quoted:
Yes it is stupid to just stack 1 stat, but for the same reasoning it's also not a good idea to say that one kind of stat is all around better than others.

I never once say that.
"Moral justification is a powerful disengagement mechanism. Destructive conduct is made personally and socially acceptable by portraying it in the service of moral ends." - Albert Bandura

"Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our futures." - Edward Snowden

You need to log in before commenting.

League of Legends Champions:

Teamfight Tactics Guide