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DanDDude
<Member>
<Member>
DanDDude wrote:
Why don't you try the zombie ward rune? It can turn your opponent's ward into your ward when killed. Good for counter attacking.
It's a good rune, but it just gives my team more vision, that's not what I'm looking for. It doesn't solve my problem which is the enemy team having every gank path warded especially in the bot lane.
Ahri Enthusiast wrote:
How do you mean high silver low gold? All you ever play is bot games and normals...
Ever heard about hidden elo? Maybe you should learn how this game works before saying nonsense.
Hidden elo is the elo of the people you get matched up with in unranked.
This is the last normal game I played.
How I do wish I could understand it as well as someone who's only been playing it for several months...
"Hidden elo" has nothing to do with actual elo. It's a lot more loose than actual MMR in the sense that it cannot be accurately determined. It is also independent of ranked MMR because it's another type of queue entirely.
If you play normal games, you cannot bring up elo, it's completely irrelevant. The fact that they're games with no consequences such as losing LP means people will automatically not be trying as hard. People play them to mess around with their friends, rare are those who take them seriously.
"Hidden elo" has nothing to do with actual elo. It's a lot more loose than actual MMR in the sense that it cannot be accurately determined. It is also independent of ranked MMR because it's another type of queue entirely.
If you play normal games, you cannot bring up elo, it's completely irrelevant. The fact that they're games with no consequences such as losing LP means people will automatically not be trying as hard. People play them to mess around with their friends, rare are those who take them seriously.
Ahri Enthusiast wrote:
How I do wish I could understand it as well as someone who's only been playing it for several months...
I've been playing dota for 10 years. Thanks for your concern. Every single moba has the same system for its unranked MMR and I think I know pretty well how that thing works.
Now, gonna answer my question in the OP or gonna keep derailing this thread?
DotA =/= League. People need to stop thinking their knowledge of DotA directly translates to League, they are two different games played in different ways. Previous moba experience helps, but it doesn't make you an expert as there are many
To answer your question: buy pink wards and sweeper trinket and rethink your ganking routes. Know which lanes you can and cannot gank (gank immune champions like LeBlanc, low kill potential on your laner and so on). Learn the concept of lane priority. If your mid laner is able to shove faster than the enemy mid laner, you can make plays with him elsewhere. A good example of that is Taliyah who you can easily 4 man bot lane with.
Coordinate a dive with your bot lane if they're turret hugging. If you can set your bot lane ahead, they can easily transition the lead elsewhere. It works really well with support like Alistar.
Consider level 2 ganks. Pretty much any jungler is capable of cheesing like that and they barely set you behind even if they fail. Most cases you're at least going to burn a summoner. Twitch is particularly good at that.
Also, you don't want to start botside with Caitlyn, Leona or Xayah + Rakan lanes and such.
To answer your question: buy pink wards and sweeper trinket and rethink your ganking routes. Know which lanes you can and cannot gank (gank immune champions like
LeBlanc, low kill potential on your laner and so on). Learn the concept of lane priority. If your mid laner is able to shove faster than the enemy mid laner, you can make plays with him elsewhere. A good example of that is Taliyah who you can easily 4 man bot lane with.Coordinate a dive with your bot lane if they're turret hugging. If you can set your bot lane ahead, they can easily transition the lead elsewhere. It works really well with support like
Alistar.Consider level 2 ganks. Pretty much any jungler is capable of cheesing like that and they barely set you behind even if they fail. Most cases you're at least going to burn a summoner.
Twitch is particularly good at that.Also, you don't want to start botside with
Caitlyn, Leona or Xayah + Rakan lanes and such.
Ahri Enthusiast wrote:
DotA =/= League.
But the elo system is still the elo system. Chess also has elo rankings, and it works the same way, I don't have to be good at chess to know that.
Ahri Enthusiast wrote:
To answer your question: buy pink wards and sweeper trinket and rethink your ganking routes.
Well I'm basically doing everything you said already. That's the problem.
The issue is that there's only 2 ganking paths on the bot lane which makes the lane super safe (maybe 3 with blast cone). If I deward, the enemy bot lane will walk back, while I'll reveal my position to everybody and they can punish me by counterganking/counterjungling. And when I come back a few minutes later, they'll have the place re-warded. I've been playing dewarding support jungler a lot and that's the very reason why I'm frustrated in the first place. Dewarding doesn't give me more kill opportunities.
I'm a couple days late to this but I'll try and help as best I can.
For junglers like Xin Zhao that don't have a way to hop walls, you have to stick with standard gank routes, so I'll focus on those. Summoner's Rift is asymmetrical, which means you'll have more gank route options for one of your side lanes than the other. Generally Blue team's bot lane and Red team's top lane are the more vulnerable lanes, though you can of course gank the "safer" lane if you know where enemy vision is.
Here's an example of a bot lane gank from red side when the enemy team is pushing in:
Here's one for ganking top as blue side:
Some standard mid lane ganks from blue side:
Hopefully you get the idea. In some cases, you just need to clear the vision to force the enemy to play safer and put less pressure on your laner. Sometimes you can do something a little fancier like hopping a wall with a Blast Cone or a dash ability, forcing a dive on a laner that's pushed to the enemy tower, or setting up a lane gank for a lane that's pushed to the enemy tower.
To lane gank, you ideally want to get in the farthest lane bush while the lane is pushed in, then let your laner reset the wave and then gank when the enemy laner walks up to last-hit or trade. This can be harder to do in silver if your allies don't know what you expect of them.
Another solution is to try out different junglers. Some champions like Rek'Sai have more gank path options because they can hop walls with a basic ability. Others like Evelynn and Nocturne have abilities that let them ignore standard vision entirely. You could also try someone like Shaco who uses short term invisibility to close the gap, or Rammus/ Hecarim who can sometimes just run straight into lane with high movement speed.
An important thing to remember is that not everyone wards properly, and most of the time you can spot when they're warding if you're looking for it on the map. If I'm blue side and I see the enemy top laner push up and then leave lane briefly, chances are they've warded the river. Then I know I should be able to gank them by entering the north side of the jungle and ganking from tribrush, assuming I don't run into the enemy jungler on the way.
Make sure you buy Control Wards as they make it a lot easier for you to gank enemies who are overextended and it helps your allies see ganks coming if they push up. Usually I'll place a control ward near the lane where I plan on ganking the most.
Last thing I'll mention is that sometimes you can gank lanes that are very overextended, even if they have vision of your gank route. Depending the ally and enemy laners, you can punish enemies for pushing up even if they have a ward, simply because you and your ally have so much mobility/CC. For example if you're playing Udyr and ganking for a post-6 Malphite, you can probably just run through a ward and still get to your target if they're overextended, especially if they don't have Flash.
Hope that helps.
For junglers like Xin Zhao that don't have a way to hop walls, you have to stick with standard gank routes, so I'll focus on those. Summoner's Rift is asymmetrical, which means you'll have more gank route options for one of your side lanes than the other. Generally Blue team's bot lane and Red team's top lane are the more vulnerable lanes, though you can of course gank the "safer" lane if you know where enemy vision is.
Here's an example of a bot lane gank from red side when the enemy team is pushing in:
Here's one for ganking top as blue side:
Some standard mid lane ganks from blue side:
Hopefully you get the idea. In some cases, you just need to clear the vision to force the enemy to play safer and put less pressure on your laner. Sometimes you can do something a little fancier like hopping a wall with a Blast Cone or a dash ability, forcing a dive on a laner that's pushed to the enemy tower, or setting up a lane gank for a lane that's pushed to the enemy tower.
To lane gank, you ideally want to get in the farthest lane bush while the lane is pushed in, then let your laner reset the wave and then gank when the enemy laner walks up to last-hit or trade. This can be harder to do in silver if your allies don't know what you expect of them.
Another solution is to try out different junglers. Some champions like Rek'Sai have more gank path options because they can hop walls with a basic ability. Others like
Evelynn and Nocturne have abilities that let them ignore standard vision entirely. You could also try someone like Shaco who uses short term invisibility to close the gap, or Rammus/ Hecarim who can sometimes just run straight into lane with high movement speed.An important thing to remember is that not everyone wards properly, and most of the time you can spot when they're warding if you're looking for it on the map. If I'm blue side and I see the enemy top laner push up and then leave lane briefly, chances are they've warded the river. Then I know I should be able to gank them by entering the north side of the jungle and ganking from tribrush, assuming I don't run into the enemy jungler on the way.
Make sure you buy
Control Wards as they make it a lot easier for you to gank enemies who are overextended and it helps your allies see ganks coming if they push up. Usually I'll place a control ward near the lane where I plan on ganking the most.Last thing I'll mention is that sometimes you can gank lanes that are very overextended, even if they have vision of your gank route. Depending the ally and enemy laners, you can punish enemies for pushing up even if they have a ward, simply because you and your ally have so much mobility/CC. For example if you're playing
Udyr and ganking for a post-6 Malphite, you can probably just run through a ward and still get to your target if they're overextended, especially if they don't have Flash.Hope that helps.
Thanks to Minho for the sig!
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I used to play junglers like
This is incredibly frustrating. Wards + midlaners with escapes like lb, zed etc...this game is just way too safe.
I've moved on to playing
I don't know if it's the elo (high silver/low gold), where people place defensive wards all the time but don't try to clear enemy wards, or if it's just the game being silly.
And if one of your lanes loses, then they'll lose ward control and the bushes will be permanently warded anyways, so the one lane you want to get to come back becomes ungankable period.
I feel like unless you play a jungler who has specific skills to initiate out of ward vision (
Am I missing something?