It's just barely better. Personally, with your graphs up there, I'd choose IE over Ghostblade, every time.
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It also isn't taking into account things besides pure damage, such as the lifesteal on bloodthirster and the movespeed on phantom dancer, which is why they look so abysmal in this graph. Oh and who could overlook cost of the item? One reason that he's suggesting getting ghostblade over IE is that the damage while it's active's up is comparable, and it costs much, much less, but you wouldn't be able to tell that from this chart! More matters than just pure numbers, though I agree it will help you make choices by using math and graphs to compare items.
If you want to get people to start using graphs more, you can always make a tutorial for how to use whatever program you use for comparing items. :)
If you want to get people to start using graphs more, you can always make a tutorial for how to use whatever program you use for comparing items. :)
Thanks to GrandMasterD for my sig!
Jet
<Member>
<Member>
from that graph infinity edge is the best, obviously, so why use graphs when you can't even analyse your own results correctly?
even then, you have 2 axis, one including an actual informatical value.
if you want to TRULY show what is the best DPS item, you'd need to have a 4 - 5 axis chart with
arp
armor
damage
time
(maybe) with an adjustable value of attack speed to show how fast your damage rises with certain items
and to truly show the effectiveness of an item you have to include critical damage charts, especially since 3 of those items have critical values attached.
even then, you have 2 axis, one including an actual informatical value.
if you want to TRULY show what is the best DPS item, you'd need to have a 4 - 5 axis chart with
arp
armor
damage
time
(maybe) with an adjustable value of attack speed to show how fast your damage rises with certain items
and to truly show the effectiveness of an item you have to include critical damage charts, especially since 3 of those items have critical values attached.
Jet has been banned for trolling and blatant racism.
Mathematical calculations do not equate to in-game superiority.
You have to factor in how other items are influencing your output, and how your champion fights.
You have to factor in how other items are influencing your output, and how your champion fights.
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Let's assume everyone is simple rolling their face on the keyboard. Now, PD is better. You don't need control for it. In very controlled situations, Ghostblade is better. Everything else, IE is far superior. You only get the slightly better stats while Ghostblade is active and isn't worth it IMO to have that much damage loss for so long.
Jet wrote:
from that graph infinity edge is the best, obviously, so why use graphs when you can't even analyse your own results correctly?
even then, you have 2 axis, one including an actual informatical value.
if you want to TRULY show what is the best DPS item, you'd need to have a 4 - 5 axis chart with
arp
armor
damage
time
(maybe) with an adjustable value of attack speed to show how fast your damage rises with certain items
and to truly show the effectiveness of an item you have to include critical damage charts, especially since 3 of those items have critical values attached.
This. But you don't need more than 2 or 3 axises. ArP is included in damage. You NEED an Y axis to be damage(or DPS with AS), X to be armor and if you want time Z should be the time.
Use formulas found here for damage with crit, AS and ArP.
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SpicyRice
<Member>
<Member>
Jet wrote:
from that graph infinity edge is the best, obviously, so why use graphs when you can't even analyse your own results correctly?
even then, you have 2 axis, one including an actual informatical value.
if you want to TRULY show what is the best DPS item, you'd need to have a 4 - 5 axis chart with
arp
armor
damage
time
(maybe) with an adjustable value of attack speed to show how fast your damage rises with certain items
and to truly show the effectiveness of an item you have to include critical damage charts, especially since 3 of those items have critical values attached.
i had assumed that people know the cost of the items, but i thought it obvious: IE costs 1800 more than youmuu's.
1) a youmuu's + BF sword (1850 gold) does far and away more damage than IE at stages 1 and 2 and the same at stage 3. A youmuu's is the best choice. especially given that Sion's Ult gives him between 50 - 100% lifesteal which knocks Bloodthirster out of the equation (the graph assumes fulls stacks anyway).
2) additional armour pen from items is already factored into the damage
3) to avoid having too many axis, i used DPS i.e. average damage per second. there is no need for seperate damage and time axis.
I agree that the difficulty with this approach is that it doesn't factor things like lifesteal or CDR. But it does let you make a more informed decision; If i know that phantom dancer does the same damage as a bloodthirster, since they are roughly equivalent cost, i can decide whether i want the lifesteal or the movespeed more.
I used excel to work these out. I guess if there's enough demand I might make a google docs spreadsheet which people can copy + Paste then input their own values to inform their decisions...
SpicyRice
<Member>
<Member>
also to be clear, i have not calculated DPS as AS*AD, i have factored in all the stats:
(((Crit Chance * Attack Speed) * Attack Damage * Bonus Crit Damage) + ((1-(Crit Chance * Attack Speed))* Attack Damage))*(1-((Enemy Armour - Your Armour Penetration)/100))
i.e. (Damage from Crits) + (Damage not from Crits) * Damage mofifier from armour
I have also taken into account procs on Trinity Force but I won't but the formula up here as it's much more complex.
(((Crit Chance * Attack Speed) * Attack Damage * Bonus Crit Damage) + ((1-(Crit Chance * Attack Speed))* Attack Damage))*(1-((Enemy Armour - Your Armour Penetration)/100))
i.e. (Damage from Crits) + (Damage not from Crits) * Damage mofifier from armour
I have also taken into account procs on Trinity Force but I won't but the formula up here as it's much more complex.
Jet
<Member>
<Member>
SpicyRice wrote:
i had assumed that people know the cost of the items, but i thought it obvious: IE costs 1800 more than youmuu's.
draw a line from the highest point to the lowest point
infinity edge is better according to your chart, especially if you included as much as you said in your excel spreadsheet
Jet has been banned for trolling and blatant racism.
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It seems to me that there are a lot of similar builds which use different items to do the same job. In a lot of cases there is only one best item and the others are sub-optimal. Why don't people just uses calculations to compare actual benefits of items and just show that their build is the best?
Obviously there are trade-offs to consider: e.g. Phantom Dancer and The Bloodthirster add about the same to DPS, but bloodthirster gives lifesteal while PD gives movespeed and works better with Infinty Edge.
However sometimes, items are just head and shoulders above others:
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In this graph I show why Youmuu's is the best choice for an AD sion.
Why don't people actually do these calculations when they make guides?
My guide to AD sion is the only guide I know which includes them: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ranked-ad-sion-a-comprehensive-guide-70183