Gunblade, you say? Interesting. Never seen that get build on ad carries, not in Top Elo streams either. I'll try it out.

Alright, I'll be ****ing around a bit more with builds then. My match history has been green for a while so it can't hurt I guess!

I'm doing fine on what I use now, but I'm intersted in getting the optimal results for the optimal price, and get them in this guide. So I really appreciate your hard work and telling me about it.

Hope we can stay in touch mate.

Hextech Gunblade with any champion that has a useful AP ratio. Sivir's boomerang scales both with AD and AP. Use the boomerang on a minion wave and you'll heal half your hp :D Gunblade is a beast on her.

Yes, you can ignore the AD marks. They're only useful on rare champions like Akali (to get passive at lvl1) and maybe Jax.

ArP marks are best in 99% of the cases when using AD quints. Strongly recommended.

Yeah, Wit's End and Malady are their kind of items, depending on the enemy team. Teemo belongs to the on hit stackers too.

I guess I have to buy the AD quints sometime (again) then, the marks I might as well ignore? What would you use for marks if you use AD quints?

I really appreciate your information so far, I will surely make use of it. And will read that "Some ****..." link!

I build Bloodthirster only on a few champions that farm nice and easy (and push hard), like Sivir. Or I build 1 or 2 in late-game when I have more than enough AD, 50%+ crit chance, a Banshee's Veil etc... But if it's really that bad, I should consider some other stuff. What lifesteal item(s) would you recommend then?

Will test some more on LoL anytime soon, and I'll keep editing the guide.

Carry =/= build crit. WW is (as any decent player knows) an on hit stacker. Getting Bloodrazor is a must on him and I tend to get Wit's End too. Kog'Maw is also an on hit stacker. He should have Bloodrazor and Malady/Wit's End.
I would consider MS quints on Any NON-CRIT damage dealer. Like Kog and WW.

AD quints are great on crit builds. I use them all the time on Ashe and MF. AD quints give more than the marks in comparison and AD scales with crit, that's why they're good.
The AD marks are nothing special and the seals and glyphs just suck.

ArP runes are not a waste when building Last Whisper. Click the "Some ****...." link in my sig to see how ArP compares to crit chance runes with a last whisper.

Bloodthirster is a bad item. It's much worse than other items when it's not fully stacked and only equal to other items when it is. It sucks that it's so UP :(

Most carries need attack speed, but that's easily taken care of with an early Zeal that is built into Phantom Dancer when the time is right. That's definitely enough for me when I play crit carries.

Nice to receive a comment from you, Searz. I get Phantom Dancer on any champ that benifits much from crit too (Tryndamere, Ashe, Gangplank (a bit later) and Trist most likely), I don't like WW as carry at all btw... Rather build Madred's Bloodrazor -> Berserker's Greaves / Mercury's Treads / Ninja Tabi -> Spirit Visage -> Sunfire Aegis (or something in that trend) on him.

I have no experience with AD quints, I used to have a full AD page when it wasn't buffed yet, but I threw all of it in the combiner when ArP was so much better back then... I might try them sometime again.

I recently started using att speed, since ArP got nerfed (and flat HP quints). I like it because you can rush Last Whisper then to take care of most armor (building Last Whisper if you have ArP runes on you is basically a waste imo), and focus on getting more ad and lifesteal (I like Bloodthirster). I farm much, since I usually end up with teammates that don't know how to do a proper teamfight and force me to be a strong pusher and be able to kill most enemies easily that are overextending (ArP won't make you a faster pusher, since minions have little armor). Champions like Ashe and Miss Fortune really need attack speed (it's useless if you can only throw in 1 or 2 auto attacks and then have to run for your life), and I like it in early-game so I can run/chase more easily while attacking (do you have any idea if animation canceling, like in DotA, is actually doing much in LoL? I use it all the time, but don't know if it differs from just clicking once on an enemy). But maybe, if I put some more time in paying attention on damage output on auto attacks and skills with both runes and different item builds, I might get back to ArP on most champions again :)

I'm glad you noticed the Reggie Fils-Aime reference, lol. Repped you!

They're very nice on roamers. But also on carries that don't have any movement speed items. I go for Phantom Dancer on all my crit carries so MS quints would be a waste on those. I would definitely consider them on Kog'Maw and other non-crit carries like him(WW?) though.

Something you haven't included in the guide is that AD quints are VERY good on crit champions. Anyone who gears into crit and wants early damage should use AD quints.

You're clearly overusing attack speed quints. They're not very good. HP, AD or ArP is pretty much always better. You should also use ArP on champions like Ashe and Corki. (too lazy to go into detail of why tho :P)


Do I explain that in my guide? Can't remember :3


Sorry, just had to XD

Fair enough. I usually prefer Ghost (and Boots of Swiftness for Ashe) for chasing. I like to use my Greater Quintessence of Movement Speed on roamers mostly, so I don't waste too many time when going from lane to lane.

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep this guide it as it is right now, but probably will turn that feature on for, possible, future guides.

If I read through my guide again, I can understand your mixed thoughts, we both know there's not much of a perfect build (and if there is, there will be some nerfing/removing on items)!

I will work on my rune section, and probably other sections too, whenever my body is ready ;)

Oh, and thanks again. Repped (whatever it does) you for your time. I didn't expect useful feedback so soon, there's so many... critizable... people in the LoL community (but I guess that goes for most of the games nowadays). I'll check on your work some other time and leave you a comment or 2, hoping we can stay in contact.

People like Movespeed Quints on range carries so they can chase actually. Since range characters are a little slower than melee characters for balance reasons, some people like to take Movespeed quints on them so they secure kills.

Also you can enable "comment require to vote" in the little checkbox by save and publish. This will force people to leave a comment when they vote, so they will at least say SOMETHING but it still might not be helpful.

I can tell you put a lot of thoughts into this, and I really do appreciate that. I see you've already edited some things and made it easier to read (colors on summoner spell titles). I will give you a +1 because overall it's good information, even if there's some debatable things in there. I think it is a good resource for people just learning LoL, or people just getting into making their own builds.

Your rune section could use a lil more explanation though. Like WHY are magic pen runes better than ap reds? (obvious to us but not to others). The top Eve guide has ALL ap runes, it makes me cry, and people think it's a good idea. If you don't want to explaion you could at least link to Searz's rune guide and say "look here for more info / explanations."

Thanks for the comment, Mowen.

Cho'Gath can easily deny Veigar (unless someone is willing to take over Veigar's lane), by using his Feral Scream whenever Veigar tries to get a last hit. If Cho'Gath actually has Archaic Knowledge or maybe even some AP, he does a lot of damage with only that already. If you add a hit with Rupture and Ignite with that Veigar might as well be dead, not to mention Feast. Veigar needs early game to get stronger, be it last hits for gold or just the +AP on every kill.

Greater Quintessence of Movement Speed are nice, but normally you would need to build on your damage output as a carry and not in running away faster. That's why I'd recommend getting the summoner spells I'm telling about in my guide. And for some carries getting a lot of pure damage does add up for their ult, making them as useful as possible in teamfights ( Miss Fortune for example).

Hm, I just added the default sections, since this is my first guide. And gave them a bit more of an original name (well, tried it). I have to agree with you tho', I, myself, vary on skill builds all the time too. Just trying to talk sense in why you should level a skill or not.

I was confused on where to start with this guide too, I'm just trying to get some more 'in-depth' information to the community, as I see many people just mindlessly following champion guides. This game can be more interesting if you actually know why you are having a particular mastery build, rune build and/or item build and how it benifits your champion(s).

Don't get me wrong, it's great that people come up with good (and bad) guides for their favorite champions. This guide is only showing examples of how you can build different types of champions, it does not say it's the only way. These are examples, with as much explanation I can bring, about why it works (or doesn't). Little things like the order of how penetration and reduction goes are often not looked into, and you might end up buying items in-game that make you waste 2k+ gold!

I thank you kindly for your comment, a lot more helpful than just random down-voting for new guidewriters like me (been around LoL since the start though).

Why is picking Veigar against cho asking for a lose?

Movespeed quints are also very good on range dps and tanks.

The section on Which Skill to Level Up First? I think shouldn't be included at all. It is SO different for every person, and depending on the character some champs don't even max their cc skills first because it's not worth it early game.

I think this is an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. Trying to make something like this for all champs is very subjective, and we're on a site ALL ABOUT making lots of builds, so I feel like if someone wanted to know how to build a champ, they would just look at the builds. I am just not seeing it's usefulness in this site, but I think it would be good for someone who's a new player/guidewriter to look into.

I appreciate you putting in this effort to help people, but I'm not going to +1/-1, I still haven't read it all, and I am kind've uneasy about it right now.

Well done sir obviously a lot of work here my friend

Keep it up :)