Xin Zhao - Three Talon Strike vs. Audacious Charge

[quote=Flubadoo][quote=JunSupport] Maxing Charge first doesn't do much. The different between 20% and 40% isn't significant because at all ranks, the slow lasts 1.7seconds according to the database. TTS however, increases your damage from 15 to 75. That's like an extra Pick Axe or BF sword for the duration of the hits. [/quote] Also, Audacious charge increases your damage from 70-230 while TTS is 45-225 20% more slow is a lot. That is 35+ movespeed on a champion, which might just be enough to land your TTS. It also reduces CD.[/quote]

[quote=Hamduden][quote=Flubadoo] [quote=JunSupport] Maxing Charge first doesn't do much. The different between 20% and 40% isn't significant because at all ranks, the slow lasts 1.7seconds according to the database. TTS however, increases your damage from 15 to 75. That's like an extra Pick Axe or BF sword for the duration of the hits. [/quote] Also, Audacious charge increases your damage from 70-230 while TTS is 45-225 20% more slow is a lot. That is 35+ movespeed on a champion, which might just be enough to land your TTS. It also reduces CD. [/quote] At lvl 9, you'll probably have Brutalizer, Phage, something (more AD definately) - lets say 100 AD. This will make the TTS calculation like this: 3 x (100 + 75) = 525 And 100 AD is probably less than what you'll actually have. EDIT: ofc people will have some armor to stop the full damage, but you'll still deal more damage than 225. And remember: the same counts for AC - the enemies will ofc have some magic resist to stop the full damage.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]You're not counting the fact that you can still hit for the same amount of base AD if maxing Audacious Charge first. :/[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]I give up. If you guys haven't gotten it by now you just aint gettin' it :S[/quote]

[quote=tinolas]True. TTS may be the stronger ability, maxing Audacious Charge is just superior. You are able to last hit just as well with TTS at Lvl 1 as if it would be Lvl 5. Lower mana cost argument isn't valid because the manacosts stay the same. Pros of maxing AC first 1. It's more AoE damage. 1. The slow will be improved. 2. The CD will be reduced. Pros of maxing TTS first 1. You will deal more damage to a single target (considering ArPen). Honestly why would you max TTS first? It's not better while laning, not better for ganking, not better in teamfights, it just could be better in a 1v1 (he can escape easier if you max TTS first just because your CD of AC is higher). But anyways, try it out in game. Ganking with Lvl 1 AC or Lvl 5.[/quote]

[quote=Slizer002]You want AC first no matter the circumstances. Xin doesn't need the extra damage, he is one of the highest damage dealing bursty AD champs in the game (only beaten by a BF stacking Panth or Lee Sin). And the most important reason for maxing charge first is quite obvious... What would you build to counter a Xin Zhao? Armor or MR? ^^ AC deals MAGIC DAMAGE![/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]I realized just now that there's another reason to max TTS first. More sustained damage. In a fight, you usually want to save Audacious Charge to chase or to escape to a minion. This also holds true for jungling. In those cases, it's better to max TTS first because it's the more spammable skill and will deal more sustained damage for a lower cost than AC will. Still, I'm not convinced. I've tried jungle Xin Zhao and liked maxing AC a lot. If jungling (assuming a Q-W-E start), where do you go from there?[/quote]

[quote=tinolas]When I'm jungling, I go like QWQ and then R > E > Q > W Btw I use AC to go in [b]and[/b] out. If you go for a quick Brutalizer the CD is really low combined with Battle Cry.[/quote]

[quote=Hamduden]/facepalm D'oh. Sorry. AC might be better in theory (as well as in practice xD) - I just have to stick to my last (but not valid) argument for TTS: I LIKE TTS. (*starts computer - opens LoL - plays Xin - maxing AC first - hurr durr*)[/quote]

[quote=Miraisen]One thing I noticed. When you use AC, doesn't Xin use an instant auto attack to the target that was selected? Other than that, since the slow lasts 1.7 seconds, would it make sense to go for TTS is you get early attack speed, to knock the target up in those 1.7 seconds, and to go for AC if you play tankier, or just get attack damage? I'm just a beginner to xin, but I'm finding this thread really informative on both sides.[/quote]