Dante Rebellion wrote:
Yes, I would like to continue the argument, you can throw in all the math you want.
I don't understand first of all why you subtracted the price, and where the hell 5% slow comes from. Lets talk about the full item (and this time so I don't make any mistakes, ill just open up a tab giving me the exact information of rylai's)
Ok, so the price tag for the full item is: 3105g
and you get : 500 health + 80 AP + UNIQUE: Your spell damage will slow the target's movement speed by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target spells and damage-over-time spells).
the build up is very good also: Giant's belt + blasting wand + Amp tome .
So now you have the AP Build up + health from giant's belt.. which means you can play a bit more aggressive.
You also get the slow. Which you say can be gotten from the red buff, in reality however you will not always be able to get the red Buff, and also red buff + rylai is much more effective than the red buff alone.
This item isnt pure defensive, it is a mixture of offensive and defensive, which is IDEAL for AP mordekaiser.
Edit: can you also give me the math why you think Frozen heart is better on morde than rylai's? looking at your guide. Another interesting fact is you add Rylai in your guide for the anti-carry section (WHICH IS AP MORDE'S REAL ROLE), and you are so against rylai, lolwtfbbq
3105-1600=1505
1600g = Needlessly Large Rod, that's the 80 ap out of the way.
So, you pay 1505g for a 15% Slow, and 500hp.
HP on Mordekaiser means almost nothing in terms of playstyle, just means you can eat stuns you don't need to eat.
In regards to the slow. When you have a slow on you, additional slows are applied at 1/3 strength.
This means, that if someone has a 20% slow on you, Rylai's with an AoE spell will slow you by an additional 5%. (Which would be multiplicative, which means it's actually only a 4% slow.)
Now, let's look at this again.
Would you pay 1505g for a 4% slow?
I wouldn't.
Would you pay 3k gold for a 25% increase in overall sustained damage, and an extra 1800~ effective health to physical damage?
I would.
Lets touch upon the "rylai's in your guide man WTF?!?!?!" topic.
On the 1st page i think... there was a discussion about how "Rylai's is core" and i've tried to be less... "blunt" with people who comment on my guide, so i added a single build with Rylai's in it, and said in my comment "i don't really like Rylai's, but i'll put a build with what i would build with it in the guide".
That satisfactory?
Tri lane for life.
Dante Rebellion wrote:
Who... Vman? lol.. have you actually seen his other games, besides the very publicized and popular ones?
Yes he does get Rylai's sometimes.
Also the gameplay and style of playing at 2000+ ElO (something that the MAJORITY of the LoL community is nowhere near) is very different. They focus alot on passive early - mid, and well co-ordinated teamfights where the team composition is near perfect. Good luck finding that at anything lower than 1800 ELO.
Also in high elo, every one knows each other, therefore trusts each others capabilities and knows how good that player is and what is there playstyle. Imitating high level play in solo que or low-mid elo is just ridiculous.
I find that **** in normals.
I don't give a **** what Vman7 gets as his items for Mordekaiser, i was making a point that you DON'T Need health for your abilities, because you rush a revolver.
It would be like complaining that Oriana is mana hungry, and then buying all flat mana items, instead of a mana regen item that would solve your mana problems forever.
Tri lane for life.
"So, you pay 1505g for a 15% Slow, and 500hp."
Uhm... yes? A giant's belt is 1110 for 430 health.. for + 395g (1505-1110) you're getting 70 health + 15% slow...
So yes from your guide you say frozen heart is your bread and butter item on morde, it's price is 2775 and it gives you 500 mana which morde cannot use.. Yet you feel like Rylai which has stats that are useful to morde is a waste of money? wow, ok.
"HP on Mordekaiser means almost nothing in terms of playstyle, just means you can eat stuns you don't need to eat."
Yes it does, it must means that you will have to change your playstyle to much more cautious, you will not be able to engage first or second into a teamfight thus making you dependent on your team. Something I hate, you can also ask EU players (if you have an alt there or main) about how my morde is, I run into a fight and quadra kill. Easy.
"In regards to the slow. When you have a slow on you, additional slows are applied at 1/3 strength."
Can I have a link to validate this (I checked google, didnt get any information on it)? I never felt like when I was slowed the slows I apply to the enemy is not 1/3 strength lol.
Uhm... yes? A giant's belt is 1110 for 430 health.. for + 395g (1505-1110) you're getting 70 health + 15% slow...
So yes from your guide you say frozen heart is your bread and butter item on morde, it's price is 2775 and it gives you 500 mana which morde cannot use.. Yet you feel like Rylai which has stats that are useful to morde is a waste of money? wow, ok.
"HP on Mordekaiser means almost nothing in terms of playstyle, just means you can eat stuns you don't need to eat."
Yes it does, it must means that you will have to change your playstyle to much more cautious, you will not be able to engage first or second into a teamfight thus making you dependent on your team. Something I hate, you can also ask EU players (if you have an alt there or main) about how my morde is, I run into a fight and quadra kill. Easy.
"In regards to the slow. When you have a slow on you, additional slows are applied at 1/3 strength."
Can I have a link to validate this (I checked google, didnt get any information on it)? I never felt like when I was slowed the slows I apply to the enemy is not 1/3 strength lol.
It's not 1/3.
It takes the strongest slow and then the secondary slow gets applied to remainder.
So, if you get slowed by... 35% and 15%, you would get slowed by first the 35% and then, the 15% would take 15% of the remaining 65% and tack that number onto the 35% giving you a slow of 44.75%
It takes the strongest slow and then the secondary slow gets applied to remainder.
So, if you get slowed by... 35% and 15%, you would get slowed by first the 35% and then, the 15% would take 15% of the remaining 65% and tack that number onto the 35% giving you a slow of 44.75%
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Dante Rebellion wrote:
"So, you pay 1505g for a 15% Slow, and 500hp."
Uhm... yes? A giant's belt is 1110 for 430 health.. for + 395g (1505-1110) you're getting 70 health + 15% slow...
So yes from your guide you say frozen heart is your bread and butter item on morde, it's price is 2775 and it gives you 500 mana which morde cannot use.. Yet you feel like Rylai which has stats that are useful to morde is a waste of money? wow, ok.
"HP on Mordekaiser means almost nothing in terms of playstyle, just means you can eat stuns you don't need to eat."
Yes it does, it must means that you will have to change your playstyle to much more cautious, you will not be able to engage first or second into a teamfight thus making you dependent on your team. Something I hate, you can also ask EU players (if you have an alt there or main) about how my morde is, I run into a fight and quadra kill. Easy.
"In regards to the slow. When you have a slow on you, additional slows are applied at 1/3 strength."
Can I have a link to validate this (I checked google, didnt get any information on it)? I never felt like when I was slowed the slows I apply to the enemy is not 1/3 strength lol.
1. 20% CDR and 99 Armor can't be bought for under 4000g, and that's assuming two items. If you are REALLY gonna cry about 500 mana, then continue to build your warmog's/Rylai's Mordekaiser.
2. I run mordekaiser with 50% Spell Vamp, It doesn't matter if i have 500 health or 5000 health, because i'll never drop below 90% because I'm in the middle of four guys destroying them, and getting free health from it all.
3. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Movement_speed
Tri lane for life.
Lugignaf wrote:
It's not 1/3.
It takes the strongest slow and then the secondary slow gets applied to remainder.
So, if you get slowed by... 35% and 15%, you would get slowed by first the 35% and then, the 15% would take 15% of the remaining 65% and tack that number onto the 35% giving you a slow of 44.75%
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Movement_speed
Edit: In any case. I'm going to sleep, I'll be back here later i guess.
Tri lane for life.
Do you happen to play on EU temzilla? I would love to 1v1 your morde, or even play a game with you showing me how powerful and godlike your morde is to not even go below 90% vs 4 people lol. Interesting to know about the slows because it also turns into my favor that if I slow the enemy first his slow effects will be 1/3 the strength which is pretty damn useful tbh :D.. and you can be pretty reassured that morde will get the first slow since he can just W the main initiator and get an AOE slow off... Or range E a slow effect
1. Morde's shield scales much better with resistances than with health. More resistance makes the shield harder to break through while more health will only briefly prolong your lifespan.
2. An AP or tanky AP build can sustain itself with Hextech early on and later on and if you're being spiked down, your W and shield make you hard enough to kill that your AD carry will punish the enemy team for blowing everything on you. If your AD carry can't do that, or if you're being bursted down so fast that it doesn't make a difference, a Rylai's isn't gonna do jack ****.
3. The slow on all your abilities is marginal at best. A 15% slow, which, as Temzilla mentions, even lower when the enemy is already slowed by another source, is not worth the gold you're paying for it.
4. You base things off the assumption that you can't rely on your teammates for a slow and need to carry instead. In that case, movespeed from Force of Nature and Lich Bane are much stronger than a slow while offering a lot more benefit.
also orianna has some sick nasty burst damage, don't hate
2. An AP or tanky AP build can sustain itself with Hextech early on and later on and if you're being spiked down, your W and shield make you hard enough to kill that your AD carry will punish the enemy team for blowing everything on you. If your AD carry can't do that, or if you're being bursted down so fast that it doesn't make a difference, a Rylai's isn't gonna do jack ****.
3. The slow on all your abilities is marginal at best. A 15% slow, which, as Temzilla mentions, even lower when the enemy is already slowed by another source, is not worth the gold you're paying for it.
4. You base things off the assumption that you can't rely on your teammates for a slow and need to carry instead. In that case, movespeed from Force of Nature and Lich Bane are much stronger than a slow while offering a lot more benefit.
also orianna has some sick nasty burst damage, don't hate
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Yes he does get Rylai's sometimes.
Also the gameplay and style of playing at 2000+ ElO (something that the MAJORITY of the LoL community is nowhere near) is very different. They focus alot on passive early - mid, and well co-ordinated teamfights where the team composition is near perfect. Good luck finding that at anything lower than 1800 ELO.
Also in high elo, every one knows each other, therefore trusts each others capabilities and knows how good that player is and what is there playstyle. Imitating high level play in solo que or low-mid elo is just ridiculous.