Taggrin's Solo Queue Tier List

[quote=JunSupport]@Restrictnine: @Your Jarvan analysis. Jarvan has an armor+attackspeed steroid with [[Demacian Standard]]. That's what makes him good in the jungle. And he fits perfectly in the current meta. AP Carries solo + Carry/Support bot where magic damage is very heavy. As a physical-damage tank, Jarvan offers a monopolized ability to fit into high-magic team comps. I don't know what kind of Jarvans you've been playing, but his damage is still solid for a tank, making him always draw aggro. Demacian Standard also means ALL allies in the fight have improved armor and attack speed. Let's also not forget an AoE knock-up by combo'ing with [[Dragon Strike]]. That's a big deal. Being able to hold enemies in place with [[Cataclysm]] or his other cc is what a Tank is suppose to be. You can't ignore Jarvan in a fight. You can ignore an Alistar after he uses his spells. He may seem lackluster, but he's as good as Amumu or Singed. He just takes more skill to handle.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]But thats just it. Jarvan wasnt designed to be a tank. He was designed to be an offtank. Like irelia. To be honest, I will pick any other offtank over jarvan any day. I can beat jarvan with any other solo top laner or jungler. and that is what matters in solo queue. Shut down the enemy, and you win.[/quote]

[quote=BigDaddyPedro][quote=Restrictnine] Sigh. I had a really great post going then my comp crashed. So sadness. Lets try this again. WOW lots of great feedback!! heres some of what i saw: Lots of alistar and Wukong talk Teemo and kennen too high? Panth too low? morgana j4 too low? cass too low? vlad too high ranged ad's messed up [color=#00ff00]lee sin t1?[/color] wowie guys thanks! here we go: Alistar - Actually seen much more in support bot lanes, but heres my reasoning. He just isnt as scary as he used to be. I used to be scared out of my shoes when i saw him, but with his ap ratio nerfs hes just another cc bot that happens to have a tanky ultimate. his heal has no real impact on teamfights, and if you screw up your headbutt pulv combo you are useless for the next 12 seconds, which can cost you the entire fight. Even if you do land it correctly, It just doesnt compare to other initiates like singed or amumu. He will stay high t2 until I see him really change games. Wukong - He got a small ulti buff and bug fixes, which are to be expected. He just isnt the strongest of laners. He gets beat by lots of other top laners: kennen, morde, irelia, udyr, yorick, singed, cho'gath, etc. He has no real sustain, and his damage is meh at best. Right now he feels similar to j4 solo top in terms of damage. Even if he gets ahead in cs or gets a kill, the other champ can come right back and kill him to even it up. A SIDE NOTE: triforce is bad on wukong for a few reasons. Sure his skills make it look like he would be great for triforce, mainly Q which is an auto attack buff. But his ratios are excellent, and it is being wasted by building tank + triforce. Triforce only gives something like 30 ad, and lots of other stats. Treat Wukong like an AD version of katarina. His ratios are ridiculous and you need to abuse it. His base damages are far too low to rely on that plus triforce proc. Its like saying building triforce tank pantheon is OP. Teemo - I actually like him in low tier 1. He is a great counter to a lot of top solo lanes, and his split push is ridiculous. Two things that make him very strong. Not to mention he maintains total jungle control throughout the game. Even if he only shrooms one side of the map, that gives him total map awareness and lets him push freely without reprecussions. Sure, his teamfight is a bit lackluster, but he can still tear teams apart between mushrooms, blind, and proc build. He will stay where he is. Kennen - I'm not sure about him yet... I like him where he is right now. I still havent seen much of him, but I feel like the buffs were pretty big and gave him back what he lost. His laning phase is even stronger than before, and his poke is ridiculous. Plus his aoe ulti shits on uncoordinated teams. I might move him down just a bit, but for now he will stay in tier 1. Jarvan IV - Alright there's something that people need to understand when I talk about champs like Jarvan IV. Sure, his utility is good, and yes his damage isnt half bad for a tank, but that's where it ends. He loses to almost every solo top there is, including weaker ones like lee sin and [maybe?] wukong. His jungle is lackluster, as he has no real sustain and his ganks require him to land his knock up. He just has no place in the current meta. Even his teamfight seems lackluster now. Before he had some real damage and scared the crap outta me. But now hes more of alistar 2.0. Not much more than a nuisance with his sandcastle. Before he had the damage to back it up, but the sandcastle only holds people in place. They can still fight back and do some serious damage. Just not a strong pick IMO. Morgana - I disagree with those of you that said she can do well without farm. I always remember morgana as a scary champ when she had her ap. Her utility without farm is lacking because of two reasons. Her Q is fairly difficult to land, and even when it does it does zero damage without ap. As for her R, it got a little time buff but it is still 3 seconds and without ap the damage is negligible and she is squishy. She cant initiate unless she has high ap, is tanky, or a combination of the two. Philo stone kage's isnt gonna make her much of a threat as it is. Solo mid morgana is good, but pretty gimmicky because her moveset doesnt compare to other ap carries right now. Vladimir - Contrary to morgana, I agree with you guys. I overestimated his ulti, which was one of the few redeeming factors to vlad now. He just doesnt feel very strong anymore. Miss Fortune - She is by design a champ that shits on people early game. Even when ranged ad was solo lane, she was scary to lane against. Now with a soraka or sona she can recklessly trade and come out with full health every time. She has the highest damage in an EU bot lane early game, and Solo queue is about 70% about dominating your lane early game. That is what she's best at. Vayne - You don't see it much, but she is actually VERY high damage output. She is underestimated a lot I think. The nerfs didnt wreck her, they just made her not broken. She is still a VERY strong ranged AD. Caitlyn - I compare her to MF because they have similar purposes. The difference between them is that Caitlyn's harass is a lot more iffy and relies a lot on hitting her Q. Her auto attacks are really lackluster I feel, and she just doesn't do her job as well as MF does. I know a lot of you disagree with that, but my team has played against plenty of both and trust me, given equal skill level MF is FAR scarier than caitlyn is. Casseopeia - She isn't tier 1 because the skill required to play her is insane. Possibly the hardest champ in the game. Action per minute is the standard rating for how much activity a champion requires. The average APM at 1700 elo is about 100 APM. Most cass players i've talked to have said that the APM required to be good with her is somewhere from 150-170 APM. That is ridiculous. That is like 2200 elo status. if you dont CONSTANTLY micro with her, you are losing out on her potential. Yes, she is one of the strongest ap carries in the game, but she is far too difficult to play to be consistently viable. that is why she isnt quite tier 1. You guys prove me wrong and ill move her back. So for changes thus far: Pantheon - I've seen him a few times, and heres my thoughts. He still loses to some of the tanky dps top laners, but his damage is insanity. I would actually put him at mid over top. or even jungle. But late game his damage is ridiculous. Hes going up to tier 1. Kennen - I will move him down just a bit because i think i put him too high. Vlad - going down cuz hes blah. Nasus - going down. I overestimated the buffs. I actually tried him out and i consistently got beaten by other top laners, and even saw him get shit on while watching streams. Hes going back to tier 4. Ashe - Im actually gonna move her up a bit, because I've seen her get work done in bot lane quite often. The slow on her auto attacks really punishes mistakes in lane, and despite her poor damage she can still get some kills. People tend to play overaggressive due to heals, and she punishes mistakes in that sense. Plus that arrow is so sexy. Heimerdinger - Lol. Idk what to think about him. Hes such a hilariously bad champ, but at the same time he cant lose his lane, and he makes pushing so easy. For this I will move him up a bit, but he will still be in tier 4. Skarner - I will dont know, because i actually havent seen a single skarner in a game yet. I find that a bit wierd... usually i cant fricken PICK the new champ much less see him in games lol. still waiting. [/quote] Nothing in here explains why Lee Sin shouldn't be T1.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]Whoops my bad. Lee sin not t1 because yes he is a fast jungle, and yes his ganks are amazing, BUT. ALL of his damage requires him to land a skillshot, and even when he does, his damage just doesnt compare to other junglers like yi, fiddle, and nocturne just to name a few. I have played him before but i just feel like he doesnt have the damage to back up the anti carry playstyle. And his teamfighting relies on him hitting knockups with his ultimate, but his ultimate is INCREDIBLY situational and hard to hit. He just isnt consistent enough to be tier one. Saintvicious is a great model for jungling. He rarely plays lee sin, because other champs do what he does better.[/quote]

[quote=BigDaddyPedro]I disagree, Lee Sin is an amazing anti carry if played right with the correct build. Most people when jungling build him with some damage items. This is wrong, besides wringles lantern u shouldn't have any other items at the start which contribute to AD. I build him tanky and I've had a ton of success in ranked games and normal games with him. While yes he takes a ton of skill to master this doesn't mean he should be lower in a tier list, anniva takes more skill then other casters to play, does this mean she should be lower in the tier list? no. While some junglers might have more dmg output then Lee Sin, this game isn't about 1v1 its about team work and communication. And yes he can counter jungle, if played correctly, sure he can't counter jungle Noc and Fiddle but he can counter most of the other junglers. Saintvicious isn't the only good jungler out there mate, he might not be good with lee sin while ganking or in teamfights or he can't land his q who knows (im not bashing on him). I still think Lee Sin is a tier one champ and jungler.[/quote]

[quote=Hershyy][quote=EvilDice] Have thought about making one of these, but this is actually really accurate from a 1700 perspective :) Personally, the only changes I would make are that of ranged carries. I feel Vayne and MF are both too high and Caitlyn is too low. Trundle could also use a bump. philo hog avarice kage irelia op btw [/quote] Thought they didn't stack anymore? Or can you get 1 of each?[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]Lol @Hershyy they still stack. you can get one of each. Its a bit of an inside joke. I was 0/10 as irelia and just stacked all the gp 10s till i had enough for triforce, and from there i carried and went legendary. Evildice lost... and hes a bit dumbfounded still lol.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]I believe yesterday EvilDice got 3 kills from a gank and tanked a nunu ult with Irelia...i was like, wtf, how do you tank a nunu ult. Oh and Lee Sin is still a great jungler, yes his damage relies on skillshots, so does Brand, yet you have Brand in tier 1 based on his damage and Lee in T2 because he relies on skillshots like brand...idk if that makes much sense what I was getting at, but anyways Lee should be T1. Galio and Kayle should be moved up a bit imo, Kayle's damage is still great late game when you build a voidstaff, and Galio's laning is really good. They aren't the best, but they should at least be T3. Also idk why you have Nasus T4 when your praising him on his buffs or w/e, lol. Haven't tried him yet, but even before the buffs he was a sustainable jungler and didn't have to solo and then get beaten in lane to farm up Q. And Nunu should still be Tier 2 or Tier 1, def not Tier 3. The nerfs hardly hit him at all, he can still jungle whatever route he wants, counterjungle whoever he wants and gank whoever he wants (well maybe not irelia >.>). The lvl 2 slow nerf didn't really hit him all that hard either, you can still tag someone with ice blast and red buff and they aren't getting away unless they flash.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I like that other people see the potential of [color=green][[master yi]][/color]. Most players say, that [color=green][[master yi]][/color] is a scrub that should be never played at ranked. (i am looking at the mobafire chat) [color=green][[master yi]][/color] has many different jungle routes and a very high jungle speed. After a few levels he has the highest. He snowball's in the jungle best. And his ganks, i mean [color=green][[alpha strike]][/color]+[color=red]Lizard Buff[/color]= WIN. But go in first, attack them, and use [color=green][[alpha strike]][/color] if they [color=yellow][[flash]][/color] or try otherwise to escape. And never forget: You have to be born to play [color=green][[master yi]][/color] at full potential. IDK why, but it is like that.[/quote]

[quote=Joobieo#41288][quote=NicknameMy] I like that other people see the potential of [color=green][[master yi]][/color]. Most players say, that [color=green][[master yi]][/color] is a scrub that should be never played at ranked. (i am looking at the mobafire chat) [color=green][[master yi]][/color] has many different jungle routes and a very high jungle speed. After a few levels he has the highest. He snowball's in the jungle best. And his ganks, i mean [color=green][[alpha strike]][/color]+[color=red]Lizard Buff[/color]= WIN. But go in first, attack them, and use [color=green][[alpha strike]][/color] if they [color=yellow][[flash]][/color] or try otherwise to escape. And never forget: You have to be born to play [color=green][[master yi]][/color] at full potential. IDK why, but it is like that. [/quote] I like having a good Yi on my team but so many fail with him thats the problem.[/quote]