Metagame.

[quote=Searz]Anivia has shorter range AND longer cooldowns. Also Xen, it's not her laning that is OP. It's her lategame. I think a few nerfs to CDs would be in place.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis]Ah - I've always seen people say her laning is OP. Anivia does have shorter range and higher CDs, but you have to take into account - Anivia's Q can be activated along the way Her R is AoE Her E has a TINY CD She has her egg Her wall, if used correctly, can DEVESTATE team fights If Orianna is nerfed, I hope it's only a very slight one.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Xenasis: So, you don't really know what's going on with Orianna, huh? Her range makes her untouchable when played by extremely skilled users in top elo rankings. She scales better then anyone else in the game. Her harass is of the best, while her burst spike is completely unrivaled. One of those will need to DIE. The nerf(s) are definitely going to hurt. Either immediately, or she'll receive a dozen of them in a row, the same way they dealt with Vlad. You should learn to cope with that fact before they show up. They could even be on tomorrow's patch notes. Probably her scalings, and therefore, her burst damage too. Her cooldowns are sort of locked in place, because Orianna needs to be able to move The Ball around a lot to be effective, while the range is kind of the same with her design. I'd say they need to reduce her scalings until Annie's the top burster again by a little.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis]I'm currently maining Orianna. All she needs is that small 5% ratio nerf like Annie. Apparently 10 damage and 5% AP ratios nerf changed one champion from "OP" to balanced. Of course, Annie was never OP in the first place, but yeah. Orianna does need a SLIGHT nerf imo, since solo queue players can't play against her properly - but as far as high level play goes she isn't picked/banned more than Brand/Annie... Her scaling is pretty good, but it's not "better than anyone else in the game". She doesn't even snowball that well... (Her offensive ratios are - 0.6, 0.5, 0.7, and one of those is her ult, annie has 0.7, 0.75 and 0.7 (when one is her ult), and her combo is MUUUUUUUUUUCH easier to land, don't make outlandish comments if you haven't double checked the stats) Her burst spike is unrivalled? Annie/LeBlanc? I'm like 99% sure LeBlanc would EASILY beat her burst spike (which, by the way, is a lot easier to avoid on Orianna - and you have more time to react when a ball's flying to you) Her range doesn't make her untouchable - but it does make for a very powerful lane. Since her CDs are relatively high, a mobile character to dodge it or a tanky character (like Swain/WW/Udyr) to just eat it dominates her. Poke isn't a big reason for powerful champions in this metagame, with tanky DPS like Udyr and WW about, and her burst is a little worse than annie's. She has slightly more range, but she has 6-4 seconds where she can't do anything if she misses her ball (considering the travel time, it's easier than you think) and there's nothing to defend to. Annie, for example, has no problems, and LeBlanc has shown that a burst alone doesn't make a champion OP, since she's one of the most underpowered champions in the game, with arguably the best burst in the game.[/quote]

[quote=gwadzila]Melee DPS mid, support roaming, off-carry jungling, caster bot and offtank top. ohwaitthatsdota2[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Xenasis] Orianna shouldn't get nerfed, she's received no buffs (and Rabadon's got nerfed recently), and previously she was considered average at best... [/quote] She's a long range Annie bear and her CC's are more reliable. She needs nerfs. I'd agree, 10 base damage and 5% shave would put her right where she needs to be. Maybe a few seconds on some Cooldowns to be added on could be beneficial as well.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis]The difference being that you have 1-2 seconds to react to the long range Annie bear and her CCs are LESS reliable! Annie's bear drops instantly, you need to MOVE the ball, which takes time. But yeah. 5% shave please. Nothing more.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Jun is overstating things. I can see a nerf coming to her W and E CDs. A second or 2 probably. A 5% shave might be needed too, but more than that and they're overnerfing.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Xenasis] The difference being that you have 1-2 seconds to react to the long range Annie bear and her CCs are LESS reliable! Annie's bear drops instantly, you need to MOVE the ball, which takes time. [/quote] Big difference is, Orianna can constantly send that Q + W She's practically a dps caster like Vlad or Ryze with her low cooldowns. 4 seconds on [[Command: Attack]] at rank 5. In my opinion, Searz is underestimating things. (And not backing up his own statement) I'm talking about balance for high-elo, at the very top; everywhere else, Orianna might be fine, but if you're playing her perfectly, she's hard-nerf worthy. Riot does put top TOP elo on their radar often. That's why a lot of people will often freak out about nerfs, because they have no idea where it came from unless a high-ranked player shows it off on a stream. Remember when they nerfed Teemo? The Rain Man's fault. Shrooms everywhere, build tanky, split-push, and you'll never be caught. They're going to have to bring Orianna's spike below Annie's. I don't know the exactly difference between Annie and Orianna. But it'll have to be reduced. A few seconds off dissonance or protect isn't going to help, because a big part of what makes Orianna good is her harass. That Q's damage can constantly poke you down if you're trying to defend a lane and when you get low enough, you could easily eat her burst all at once. This is a damage issue. The problem-skill's cooldown is locked in place, while the annoying range can't really be altered since she's balanced around having it on that big of a leash. Easiest way of dealing with the damage would be dropping [[Command: Attack]]'s ratio down to maybe 0.5 It's the one getting thrown around the most. That would soften poke as well as reduce the big magical burst if a player does land it. [color=#ffff00]... actually.[/color] One other big way they could nerf Orianna would be hiking up [[Command: Protect]]'s mana cost. According to Mobafire, the cost is flat 40, while on LoL database, it's 60. I'm not sure who is right, but either way it's very low and doesn't scale. Raising that base up a chunk would definitely make it easier to pressure Orianna's lane. Though, one of the Riot designers expressed that they don't like to restrict champions with high mana costs anymore. Mana-cost nerfs can be negated on high-elo with being donated blue-buff anyway.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=JunSupport] I don't know the exactly difference between Annie and Orianna. But it'll have to be reduced. [/quote] Did you read ANY of my post?... Oh, and Rank 5 attack isn't really what you should be maxing first. R > W > Q > E. If you're talking about balance for high elo, why was she not first pick/ban for every match in the IEM?... She hasn't got more poke than Brand does, since Brand's is harder to avoid. The only thing she does better than Brand is utility, and her CC is only like 1s max. Also, doesn't Annie have her Q on like, a 3s CD? Since both Ws have the same sort of CD, she can't send "that Q + W". Seriously though, play Orianna yourself. Try and land EVERY Q and W, it's impossible. Good players can dodge it. She can do it a lot, but they can dodge it a lot. You can mention that stepping further in would allow for easier (but not hit every time) Qs, in that case, why not pick Annie? Orianna is a good champion - but not OP, she does nothing special compared to Annie/Brand/etc.[/quote]