|
~ Gentlemen Cho'Gath ~ |
┌──┠┴──┴ < ಠ,....,ರೃ> |
~ Keeping this sig classy ~ |
The DevTracker - For all of LoL's latest developments! | Spongebob Squarepants - The Pride of Bikini Bottom
Guides of Mine - Click the... Eh... Come back later
~Undergoing barbaric-Destruction, tasteful-Renovation, and blasphemous-Reconstruction soonâ„¢~
| (╯°□°)╯︵ â”»â”â”» | ┬──┬ ノ( ã‚œ-゜ノ) |
NinjaGinge
<Editor>
<Editor>
This is glorious.
gotta love that rioter.
gotta love that rioter.
Thanks goes to JEFFY40HANDS for a gorgeous Karma sig
Hey, you should help me on acquiring Medieval Twitch!! :D
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=507f1031d2ab3250817727
Hey, you should help me on acquiring Medieval Twitch!! :D
http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=507f1031d2ab3250817727
xLiqur
<Member>
<Member>
wow just took me 20 mins to read everything. thanks jun, i feel like i know more than the average lol player now!
he seems like a really cool dude, and you can tell he loves his job!
i want his job LOL
he seems like a really cool dude, and you can tell he loves his job!
i want his job LOL
The battleroom is ready. Liqur's hands are steady. The enemy is deadly.
Just making predictions. :P
It's kind obvious that TriForce tank builds are too appealing for any alternate build to be worthwhile. (Besides Atmog's, but sometimes you just combine the two)
It's kind obvious that TriForce tank builds are too appealing for any alternate build to be worthwhile. (Besides Atmog's, but sometimes you just combine the two)
|
~ Gentlemen Cho'Gath ~ |
┌──┠┴──┴ < ಠ,....,ರೃ> |
~ Keeping this sig classy ~ |
The DevTracker - For all of LoL's latest developments! | Spongebob Squarepants - The Pride of Bikini Bottom
Guides of Mine - Click the... Eh... Come back later
~Undergoing barbaric-Destruction, tasteful-Renovation, and blasphemous-Reconstruction soonâ„¢~
| (╯°□°)╯︵ â”»â”â”» | ┬──┬ ノ( ã‚œ-゜ノ) |
The best way to nerf Trinity Force is to nerf the champ's base ad and raise his ad-ratios!
Simple, but effective!
Trinity Force is to nerf the champ's base ad and raise his ad-ratios!Simple, but effective!
^Exactly, I don't think TF will be nerfed. Either that or they standardize the damage of TF. Make it always apply 65+5*level in extra damage instead of scaling off the base.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
@Searz:
That forumla seems like just a champion's base damage + level scaling. I see no point.
Reducing base AD would probably work.
Especially on Irelia who has Hiten Style for a damage steroid.
That forumla seems like just a champion's base damage + level scaling. I see no point.
Reducing base AD would probably work.
Especially on Irelia who has
Hiten Style for a damage steroid.
|
~ Gentlemen Cho'Gath ~ |
┌──┠┴──┴ < ಠ,....,ರೃ> |
~ Keeping this sig classy ~ |
The DevTracker - For all of LoL's latest developments! | Spongebob Squarepants - The Pride of Bikini Bottom
Guides of Mine - Click the... Eh... Come back later
~Undergoing barbaric-Destruction, tasteful-Renovation, and blasphemous-Reconstruction soonâ„¢~
| (╯°□°)╯︵ â”»â”â”» | ┬──┬ ノ( ã‚œ-゜ノ) |
A lot of this I agree with, but my opinion differs from Xypherous on one key aspect.
Xypherous seems keen on identifying toxic game designs and taking them out/never using them again (he'd take them out if he could). I think that, instead of eradicating them entirely, riot should employ these toxic game designs in small doses.
For instance, we see a LOT of lane sustain; so much it dominates the metagame. This is considered a toxic design by Xypherous. However, HEAVY unavoidable burst/CC combo (I'm thinking of poppy, mostly because the second you see poppy you're dead) could also be considered toxic, could it not?
So, I think that the true cause of all these problems is not the toxic game design standing alone (who ever complained about Nasus sustain?), but instead a potent toxic game design combined with a powerful kit.
The best example of this I can consider is Nasus. Currently he's in good standing; meh laning phase, but great late game. He has sustain, which is largely what they're trying to nerf on irelia. Moreover, he has the MOST incentive of any non-veigar champion to farm all day! And guess what? I wouldn't have it any other way.
Why not? A toxic game mechanic might be a problem when it's the dominating metagame, but when it's centered around a niche champion with limitations then it's not only fine, but more than that. It offers more variety to the game, which is what we need - everyone seems to be complaining about on-hit Q's a lot (on-hit Q's are by and large NOT a toxic game design, and it seems that they're trying to milk it for all it's worth).
So, what if i want to farm all day top, despite riot considering it unfun? I have a niche champion to do it with. What if I want OP burst? I have a niche champion to do it with.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that these toxic game designs can be beneficial to the game, provided they come with limitations.
Xypherous seems keen on identifying toxic game designs and taking them out/never using them again (he'd take them out if he could). I think that, instead of eradicating them entirely, riot should employ these toxic game designs in small doses.
For instance, we see a LOT of lane sustain; so much it dominates the metagame. This is considered a toxic design by Xypherous. However, HEAVY unavoidable burst/CC combo (I'm thinking of poppy, mostly because the second you see poppy you're dead) could also be considered toxic, could it not?
So, I think that the true cause of all these problems is not the toxic game design standing alone (who ever complained about Nasus sustain?), but instead a potent toxic game design combined with a powerful kit.
The best example of this I can consider is Nasus. Currently he's in good standing; meh laning phase, but great late game. He has sustain, which is largely what they're trying to nerf on irelia. Moreover, he has the MOST incentive of any non-veigar champion to farm all day! And guess what? I wouldn't have it any other way.
Why not? A toxic game mechanic might be a problem when it's the dominating metagame, but when it's centered around a niche champion with limitations then it's not only fine, but more than that. It offers more variety to the game, which is what we need - everyone seems to be complaining about on-hit Q's a lot (on-hit Q's are by and large NOT a toxic game design, and it seems that they're trying to milk it for all it's worth).
So, what if i want to farm all day top, despite riot considering it unfun? I have a niche champion to do it with. What if I want OP burst? I have a niche champion to do it with.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that these toxic game designs can be beneficial to the game, provided they come with limitations.
Click for one of my awesome builds!
Thanks to Mowen, WrATHofVuLK, and AlexanPT for the signatures! Check out Tristana: The Lane Game, Maokai: The Chu8 Way, and Twisted Fate: Card Games!
You need to log in before commenting.
Xypherous had already spoken on this topic, except... THAT WAS MONTHES AGO!
Warning: THIS POST IS HUUUUUUGE!
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1218761
Now look at the forums, flooded by irelia comments about nerfs and not wanting nerfs. How her true damage and trinity force become to strong and can focus carries to easily. He knew what he was talking about. This is why Xypherous should be in charge of making the champions more often than not.
Well done Xypherous, you have hereby ninja'd an entire corperation and all of the people playing its game
Xypherous:
Quoted for truth - There's a lot of things that I find problematic about our game at the moment.
For example, just the contentious ones off the top of my head: ultimate AoE damage AP ratios are super high (especially after deathcap, et al) and fighters with on-hit lane sustains have more of an incentive to hit creeps and stack light attack speed rather than actually build damage or harass the opponent, especially in ranged poke lanes. ... and Regrowth Pendant/Philo Stone HP/5 is probably too high... and blue golem probably gives too much mana regen... and tears needs to be fixed with a hammer.
It's probably a good thing I'm *not* in charge of balance changes or that I'm on live. XD I'm super ham-fisted when it comes to changes. 'Light Touches' and 'Elegant fixes' are not my forte - which is why I'm in champion design! Because who cares about light touches there - must find ridiculous new mechanics and gameplay patterns!
But seriously, the task of analyzing top-tier play and making sure your changes don't cascade explode everything downwards is why working on Live is incredibly difficult. It's like working on a series of bombs duct-taped to other bombs that act as structural supports, in terms of how many things you can affect at once.
Xypherous:
Exactly, this is because I have little respect for the current state of the game or the current expectations of players just because it is the current state of the game. There is nothing 'sacred' about the state of the game for me just because it is the current state.
Since I'm primarily searching for the next new thing all the time, I don't really care about what tools players have now and thus I think taking them away or rapidly changing them is fine. I just don't have that much attachment to the status quo, so to speak, and what players enjoy now on their current champions.
And that's why a lot of the times, when you see me make changes that impact live, it's the destruction/tear down approach. Malady? Completely different nao! Locket? Gone! Warmogs? Completely different build scenario! Etc.
To be a great live designer, you have to have a healthy respect for why players enjoy playing the characters that they do. Since you touch so many already existing players with your changes, you have to ensure that people aren't too screwed by your changes. This is where I'm terrible at understanding, mostly because when things change in a game, I generally just roll with it because I enjoy the new process of discovery.
Xypherous:
It might be in the long run, but look how many people missed their old malady? This is why I'm wouldn't be very good at balancing. The end result might be better than before if they really really think hard about it but it almost always comes at the expense of players feelings and player engagement.
So, again, disclaimer, I don't decide live things and I'm not a competitive player - These are all stream of consciousness thoughts -
1. Irelia's damage is still somewhat split. It's less egregious than before, but it's still tri-damage in the end. 280 Magic Burst + 75 true damage that gets added to Q hurts. Her initial Q/E surge damage is like 450 phys, 75 true + 280 Magic, 75 true + 2 autos after tri-force.
2. Irelia's lane sustain means that, if under ranged harass, she's better off hitting creeps with max 'W' rather than harass back. The optimal play is always to ignore your opponent and farm - That's a little odd.
3. Irelia being CC immune is problematic on a character with high survivability. Since she has fighter stats (MR per level) etc, being CC immune on top of that is pretty blah.
3a. What exactly is the counterplay to something who deals tri-damage, with a blink stun and CC immune and sustain? Kite them? CC them? Harass them in lane?
4. Irelia's stun is really long and punishes you for attacking her. Attacking Irelia is a bad thing because it just means that now she has the window to burst you down so you have no response. This is a weird gameplay interaction - 'If I attack my opponent, I give her the opportunity to 100% me without response!'.
4a. Stun is probably a little too long at higher levels and too short at earlier ones.
4b. Why not just give her the stun all the time? The current setup just makes it dumb to attack Irelia.
5. Does she really need a ranged finished with an instant-speed blinkstrike that can cover 1200 units with a minion hop? Comparatively, Irelia has a lot of similar tools that Renekton has, a point stun, a point hop, lane sustain and some AoE. Irelia's just seem better in all respects.
6. Fake mana costs annoy me - Fake mana costs are things with mana costs, but don't really matter once you have a sapphire crystal. See also: Vayne, Starcall. But lots of characters have fake mana costs and mana resource management gameplay is kind of lame anyway.
@ 6: Lately, all the champions seem to have superficial mana costs. Except maybe Skarner, but he's got buffs coming...
Xypherous:
Sure. Let me give you an example of a 'tool' that fighters have right now: Minion-farm based lane sustain. People right now are used to having lane sustain on fighters because it helps them in lane. They are used to being able to recover like 200 to 300 health in 4/5 autoattacks because 'that's what they need to stay in lane'
However, I don't think this is healthy or even necessary/fun. These characters (XZ/Irelia) already have great harassment mechanics and burst charges. Why make it so that their optimal play is to hit minions while they are being harassed? If you have to B against XZ/Irelia, they can recover his entire life bar just hitting minions.
If players didn't have the sustain, they would *need* to learn how to harass effectively. Renekton players, now that Q doesn't heal as much, have learned that to use Renekton effectively, you 'E/W/Q/E' your opponents every single chance you get or you will lose that lane. Sure, you get a little bit of health from Q (okay, a lot of bit of health), but you must make sure that the opponent's health is going down faster than yours.
Players are 'used to' having such high lane sustain on these fighters. I think that this particular tool is completely unnecessary and I would have no problems just gutting it entirely. That's me basically taking what players are used to as having very little worth - It might end up in a better state, but it would cause a lot of disruption for questionable value.
Xypherous:
No. While there is some collaboration, individual champion designers are given the last say and final call about what skills or abilities make it onto their kits. No matter what awesome thing I find or what I can say, the individual champion designer is the final decision maker
Xypherous:
HE HAS DEAD RINGER. :( What is up with the hate?
I mean, don't you people understand?! You can hit 'S' (stop movement) and fake out like you've just used your 'W' skill! Or hit 'W'! You can mind game your opponents so badly with it!
(S is the stop move command which will have the same starting animation as 'W')
Xypherous:
I wouldn't know. I'm not the most intelligent person at Riot nor the most intelligent person in the community.
Xypherous:
Following you while you're invisible sounds like a bug. Thanks! I'll see if I can follow up on this.
Hm. At it's core, I think I like trinity just because it gives you a ton of fun stats and some fun procs to use while being expensive enough.
The problem is that a lot of fighters have something like 1000 base damage or no incentives to build any other kind of item - either because their damage is so split that they need some other secondary 'trinity-force' in order to compensate or they just have really problematic scaling issues (Irelia's ratios are all over the place, for example.)
While Trinity might be a little too strong, a large part of the problem on some of these fighters is just that, after Trinity, there's nothing they can really build for damage that is optimal. So, if we take away their damage, there's nothing people can do really to get more damage optimally. They'll just keep on building tank like before, only with less damage - and that's not a whole lot of fun if your character is supposed to be an assassin.
Xypherous:
I remember a while back there was a thread quoting that your original skill design for wukong was scrapped because the skill cap was to high. I can't seem to find the thread now but do you mind explaining more about the skills and why it was changed?
No no, I wasn't ever in charge of skill designs for Wukong - That was all Coronach. Sorry, I can't really give you a decent explanation of why that happened.
Xypherous:
Hm... well, I can tell you my request list for engineering on features - no ETA on any of these though.
1. Button Release detection.
2. Circular Missile Paths
3. Cleaner Skill Button UI - with room for expansion if possible for more skills - or trigger buttons, etc.
I suppose it depends on the strength of the counter-harass/charge burst mechanisms. I feel like X to the Z and Irelia, if played will, when they go in, they go in *hard*. So when they trade, yeah, they take a ton of damage, but they've hit you two or three times as hard. They'll have to look for any opportunity to hit back harder than they've been hit, etc.
Having decent scaling on Irelia for early damage items would help a lot with this, to be fair.
Xypherous:
Lightning shield is just a circular particle.
I'd like any kind of missile with a radial velocity as opposed to a straight vector path.
Xypherous:
Tear of the Goddess potentially giving you 1300 mana means, essentially that archangel's staff and manamune's conversion ratios have to suck. Tears of the Goddess also invalidates mana gameplay from a lot of our champions.
Why? Because no other item in the game can give you anywhere close to 1300 mana. The ideal scenario behind Manamune would be, you build manamune, and then you build Frozen Heart, and then you feel warm and fuzzy for being clever. However, since Manamune potential gives you 1300 mana (due to tear) and Frozen Heart only gives you 500 and Manamune's self-synergy has to be balanced around having 1300 bonus mana...
In my ideal world, tears of the goddess would cap out a lot earlier at 400 or 500 mana or so. Then upgrading to Manamune could mean that the conversion rate is 2 or 3% while having the cap still be 500.
Upgrading to Archangel's staff would increase the cap to 1000 and also up the amount of mana gained per proc - and then it would be clear. If you're a caster and you want mana problems to go away, build AA, get a decent chunk of AP and rising mana costs. Or, if you're building Manamune, suddenly that Banshee's Veil is awesome, rather than 'Oh hey, I gained 8 AD or so.'
You press a button - button goes down.
You release a button - button goes up.
So like, for example, the lightning guns in most games. You hold the mouse button down and the beam keeps going - you release it and the beam stops.
Xypherous:
The health regeneration per 5 from regrowth pendant and philosopher's stone is probably too high.
It's not too far off, but it is off, especially since you can go regrowth/hp pot.
Xypherous:
I was unaware there was an AD caster in the game besides Pantheon.. and last I checked, Pantheon was doing pretty well after the remake - I could be wrong on that.
Garen and Renekton are certainly AD fighters that use their spells for damage, but their job isn't burst the guy down from 100% to 0%.
Xypherous:
An urgot is a fighter/ranged/support/tank whose ultimate means that my totally awesome cool idea for Komachi's ultimate is gone.
GONE!
Because, really, why isn't that ultimate on a true tank? It would be so awesome - But Urgot was before my time.
Then again, putting that ultimate on a tank would be super scary, on second thought. That's a little *too* good for a true tank.
Xypherous:
This is a huge personal flaw of mine, when it comes to design, but I prefer moving through my abilities rather than right-clicking. It just feels more dynamic and impactful for me.
That said, the emergence of continuous perma-slows in our game make being a melee fighter with no gap closer a hard one. The existence of characters like Skarner/Ashe make being melee a chore if you have to run anywhere because you will almost always get kited and die.
For me, I like burst movement abilities because they give you a moment of danger as a carry. You have to respond to it immediately or suffer consequences, however, once you safely get away, you know that they can't immediately releap upon you for some time, giving you a window to pump out damage. Unfortunately, X to the Z and Irelia make this kind of gameplay irrelevant. X to the Z because his charge's cooldown and chain CC ability means you can't ever get away, and Irelia because you can't really stop her after she gets on top of you with any kind of item/mitigation/spell effects.
I'm assuming you mean Irelia in this case - I would just like it if Irelia scaled and was as squishy as a real assassin. If Irelia's purpose was to go in, utterly explode the enemy carry and then either gets CC'ed and die or uses her escape cleverly - that'd be fine. Irelia's purpose on live though, is to go in, utterly explode the enemy carry, and then tank until she walks away - which is an odd feeling.
Xypherous:
I couldn't find a wall thin enough for Riven's moveblocks, so I just disabled the ability to hop through them.
...Nothing much to say? Her lane harass is good? Using three traps well is ridiculous? She seems fine to me.
Xypherous:
AD Caster - Could this character, conceivably, take up my mage slot in a team, in that his goal is to provide poke harass and then ridiculous burst upon a single target.
I admit that my definition is probably vague and isn't all that good. It's not something I really think about too often. I just know that Pantheon is the only character I know whose intended purpose is to 100% you in a combo, whereas Garen/Renekton should really need multiple passes.
Xypherous:
Specifically for you: Terrible. Absolutely awful. Why would you even suggest such a thing - How dare you. That's just incomprehensible bad. Shush. Off of my forums you. (Note: Cow McTeats is a "friend".)
In all seriousness, I've actually thought about how to implement this, but it's not a guarantee that all maps will have brush, so it'd be kind of nichey. Maybe an item with an active that sets brush on fire would have an interesting interaction.
I'm a fan of shields, so long as they are short. 8 second shields that have 1000 hit points are annoying but powerful brief reactive shields feel similar to blocking to me, which I'm a fan of, especially if their cooldown are medium to long.
For example, wading in with a shield all the time is kind of lame, and having a shield with 100% uptime is much the same thing, but being able to say, absorb the entirety of Veigar's ult with a well-timed shield feels great.
A WILD GUINSOO APPEARS:
I had a great time at the beach. I took a picture with a huge pelican.
What did you guys do today?
Guinsoo:
I don't even know! I'm just seeing all these threads and assuming an Irelia nerf got leaked from somewhere. So I'm attempting to defend logic that I do not know, using general Riot design principles, to defend something that may or may not exist, that is subjective at best even if none of the above were true.
Quite a mess I've gotten myself into here!
Love seeing a devil's advocate hard at work. ^__^
Xypherous:
I would not. Mostly because the sustain on Renekton's minion Q is about as low as it can go without being silly.
The reason why life leech is on Renekton's Q is to give him more incentive to wade into a crowd of two or three champions because it drains a huge percent of damage versus champions as opposed to minions, especially when his ultimate is up.
Xypherous:
For me, a fighter should welcome the 2v1 fight - Not because he'll kill them both, but most likely he'll survive it while forcing the jungler to have wasted time. I designed Renekton, for example, that when he gets ganked 2v1, pretty much outputs the same amount of damage as he would on a single target and leeches twice as much.
My only concerns on Leona is that I wonder if she's serves the primary tank role well enough. She seems to do fairly well but not as your primary tank - she's a terrific follow up initiator, but she seems to really want someone else to do the first stun.
I'd also like her to be a less reliant on sunlight for damage and more reliant on her own abilities - If she had one fast ability that she could use in combat instead of being all up-front burst, she'd feel a lot better for me.
Xypherous:
Ooh, I could see how that would feel bad. I wasn't aware that was the case. Let me follow up on that later with live and see if we know about it.
I love that aspect of him, the invulnerable iron man aspect... Except for the part where he kills both of them - often with the other's attack damage.
You see, I don't actually want the fighter to *win* the 2 v 1 fight regularly - just the ability to bloody some noses and escape to the tower. Then the situation is 'Hm. Everyone is at 20% life. Do we try to dive him now and take the risk or back off?
Her shield lasts about as long as Feint but has lower base values, so it's meant to block one or two nukes. It has comparatively decent scaling though, with what stats she wants, unlike Shen's Feint.
Xypherous:
Having 9 skills on a shared cooldown would give you all the gameplay that Invoker has without the need for an unintuitive interface. True, it doesn't feel as thematic, but honestly, I'm not buying a character whose calling point is 'more skills crammed onto less buttons.'
I'm not saying that combining attributes *isn't* cool. It's just that the Invoker's spells are ridiculously disparate effects that you don't really feel like you're combining anything at all.
For example, a champion who could load 'lightning' and 'frost' charges into a shotgun which ultimately determined how many bounces or how powerful the slow that his final lightning cannon beam attack would do is cool, in that 3 x frost is different from 3 x lightning - But loading 3 x lightning charges and then turning invisible doesn't feel like I'm combining elements at all.
Xypherous:
Oh, let me clarify. I like 2-part skills, because they feel like one skill broken up into two different presses for more control.
However, overloading Wind Walk and Meteor on the same set of buttons just.. is odd.
Xypherous:
Wait, what, seriously?
Skarner didn't have one.
Nor did Orianna.
And yes, Vayne's tumble is technically a next-hit, I think that's stretching it.
Really impractical to maintain over the long run. You'd have to make sure that every new champion fit in with that one.
Especially when you consider things like animation and such.
Xypherous:
It isn't their life-steal, it's their passive on-hit + health effects.
It's actually lower than most of our fighters. We'll see how balanced she is when she comes out but she scales *very* well. Her shield has a 1.0 AD ratio and her ultimate multiplies her total AD by 20%, so.. yeah. Buy some AD/CDR, AD/MR, AD/AR if you want her shield to be durable.
It's all about the AD!
OMG, I STOPPED TO MAKE MY COMMENTS. THEN I LOOKED AT THE DEVTRACKER AGAIN AND... AND...
THERE'S MOORRRREEEE!!!
Xypherous:
From the point of view of a player, that's a lot of moves and passive stats to memorize. From the point of view of the enemy, that's a lot of moves to memorize to play against.
The main problem is, that the skills and passives do a lot and are very disparate in their effects. You want some sort of unifying mental space that the player and opponents can grasp very quickly.
For example, if you wanted the 'Mecha-Power Suit' feel, you could spin something like..
Q - Flame Mode
W - Ice Mode
E - Surge Mode
Where the second set of skill is
Q - Rocket FIst
W - Boosters
E - Self Charge
And then you'd have things like Flame Rocket Fist => Skillshot Explosion, whereas Ice Rocket Fist => Skillshot Root, and Surge Rocket Fist => Piercing Skillshot. While Fire Rocket Boosters leave a flame trail, Ice Rocket Boosters leave a slow trail, Surge Rocket Boosters move him faster and have a wind tunnel-esque effect.. And then Self Charge is just a series of steroids.
Then the opponent needs to remember 'Oh, he's got a skillshot / dash / whatever that I need to dodge', while the player can concentrate on 'Oh, there's a lot of dudes, I should use fire' or 'Oh, I need to CC this dude, I should use Ice'
There'd be a unifying color theme (Red = AoE damage, Blue = CC, Yellow = Piercing) and then a unifying skill set (Skillshot, Dash, Buff) that could be learned and combined independently in ways that make sense or are easily to guess after you've seen the others.
Xypherous:
Hm. Well, On-hit skills feel really good because they are auto-attack resets. I would imagine it's just because the complexity pendulum needs to go between simple and complex. If every champion was Orianna, our game would be ridiculously convoluted.
Some champions should be simpler (Riven) while some champions should be complicated. I'm of the opinion that our main failing is actually not spacing them out at the proper intervals such that people who play one way or people who prefer a more complicated way don't get starved for long periods of time.
Xypherous:
In general, I wouldn't do another support champion.
Mostly because if I were assigned to support, I'd probably try to go back and make our current supports more satisfying, rather than make a new one. I mean, Karma is really close to being awesome, as is Galio and Taric, in terms of support and playstyle.
Xypherous:
Yeaah... about that. See, we had this grand plan of spacing out archetype and roles..
And then Reality happened. :(
Oh reality, why do you mess with plans so.
Xypherous:
Note that the Fire/Ice/Lightning + Mecha Suit kit still has issues, but they are fine number tuning and such issues. You need to pick abilities and mechanics that share the same mental mindspace but you also need to carefully balance them so that it's not always a 'Duh, i use fire all the time' kind of gameplay.
The really tricky part of the kit is making sure that it is valid to use fire sometimes, ice sometimes and lightning sometimes, etc.
To be honest, I have no idea what I'd do with Sona... Make 'R' be dependent on her current aura? Give her a different R that gives her some kind of gameplay? The mind boggles.
Xypherous:
Hm, I didn't follow up enough in Vayne's design when she was being designed. I was busy working on Orianna. Sorry, I don't know, I was kind of in "heads down" mode at the time and trying to triage everything going on with Orianna to pay close attention to Vayne.
Sorry the response isn't more satisfying. You should flag Volty down and ask him that as he designed her.
A skillshot whose range constantly shifts is hard to learn and hard to learn to fight against because the range always shifts. You don't know when you're safe or not and you don't know whether or not the opponent is leveling it. That's typically why we don't mess with range per rank kind of deals unless it's absolutely necessary (or really cool and not *too* damaging. For example, Tristanna's autoattack damage is ignorable for the first 10 levels or so, so the increasing range isn't that big of an issue.)
Xypherous:
I'm actually of the opinion that flat AD is the best stat to give as a steroid, because it's the most expensive and hardest to get in large quantities.
Plus, you're always guaranteed to do at least X damage, which attack speed and critical don't give you.
Xypherous:
I think he's supposed to be a support/tank/caster.
...I'm not sure if I agree with that last part, as support Galio actually works really well.
Xypherous:
This is an issue I'm not commenting on at the moment, sorry, because it's before release. Art isn't my forte, so commenting on art is a little disorienting for me.
Plus, I've seen her other splashes, so it's less of a concern to me because I know how the character is *supposed* to look.
Xypherous:
It's up to the designer how much effort he wants to put into tweaking his champs when they are on live. Some designers remain very close with their champions (Brackhar) while others are more hands off (Coronach.)
I'm kind of in the middle, where I just don't want my champions to ruin games by being overpowered or underpowered.
Xypherous:
I think it's too early to tell. I think Riven will be fun, but making her high skill cap wasn't one of my goals at the outset, unlike Orianna.
The problem with an ability like this is that the variance is super high. You're either awesome or just bad. High Variance is okay in small doses, but an entire character who is high variance is odd. Leona's skills already suffer from a lot of Variance (E/R's miss rate), I'm not sure adding even more variance would make Leona feel better.
We'll see what happens in the near future - I have several kits in various stages, I just don't know if what order they'll be released, or if they'll be released at all.
Xypherous:
Okay guys, I need to actually eat now. Sorry if I missed anything, but life calls.
Bye bye!
This has been a good night, lots of learning accomplished tonight! *rolls over and has a cat nap* =^w^=
Important Question!