Snowball Katarina?

[quote=alyzar][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=alyzar] If you are in a situation as Katarina where you get focused or get stunned, you're playing her wrong. When I'm playing my best, I don't get stunned, and I sure as hell don't get focused. [/quote] No, the enemy team is playing wrong. Katarina is countered by hard CC (stuns, silences, displacements and suppression). [[Exhaust]] also cuts down her usefulness a lot. If your team is full of disrupters, theirs can be too. If the enemy team sees you picking Kat, they WILL make sure to have some tools to deal with you, whether it be an [[Exhaust]] or two, or several silences and stuns. Even with QSS, you aren't invincible, and you aren't invulnerable to CC. In a perfect world (for your team), your build could be viable. The fact is, you can't count on all your teammates to be doing extremely well, using CC perfectly while the enemy team is completely incompetent and has tunnel-vision. Any smart opponent knows to save CC for Kat's ultimate. I do it every game when I play champions like [[Alistar]], [[Soraka]], [[Ashe]], [[Malphite]] and [[Lee Sin]] to name a handful; just think how many stuns, silences, displacements and suppresses there are in the game. There are plenty of champions who are built for counter-initiation and disruption of champions just like Kat. According to your logic, a [[Fiddlesticks]] with some AP and spellvamp would be able to enter a team fight (after the initiation) and be completely invulnerable because he's channeling drain. Is this realistic? No. Of course you're going to get CC'd. It's what any competent team would do. [/quote] Did you read anything I just wrote or did you only read that single sentence? Just wondering. Also, I don't play Kat in draft pick so that's not a big issue for me. Not trying to be rude or anything but it seems like you're missing the point, I'm trying to make. I'm not invulnerable to CC, but I can get CCed and then activate QSS and jump to wherever my escape route is, thus wasting any CC they might have, and that's assuming that they have the reaction time that it would take to stun me in the .5 seconds that I'm in the fight before I shunpo away or jump to the next target. Like I said, Katarina is a lot like AP Yi. You need to kill someone with your skills in order to maximize your damage and stay alive. If you're in the same spot for more than a second or two, you're doing it wrong. A fight for me is a series of shunpos onto weakened units or assassinating a single unit and shunpoing out. If I get CCed, I'm extremely durable, I'm fast, I have guardian angel, and I have QSS. I DON'T enter the fight unless what I'm about to do will land me a kill. I DON'T put myself into situations where I will die(although obviously I make mistakes sometimes). I also don't play this in ranked, I play it in normals, and people in normal are admittedly terrible (although on my ranked account, my elo is only 1500ish, so I can't really say much because I'm not all that great either). I ALSO run flash and ghost, instead of the normal exhaust/flash or ignite/flash, so that adds even more mobility to my kit. I don't often get focused because I'm so hit-and-run and if I do stay around long enough to get focused, I have an escape route because I'm not bad at Katarina, and I have 100+ MR and armor, 2.6k HP, and other forms of tankiness that make me harder to kill than your average Katarina.[/quote]

[quote=GrimmFate][quote=alyzar] Did you read anything I just wrote or did you only read that single sentence? Just wondering. Also, I don't play Kat in draft pick so that's not a big issue for me. [/quote] Did you read anything he said? It made perfect sense. You must just be fighting bad teams if they aren't focusing you, or ccing you at all. Unless your team is so perfect they don't get the chance. But otherwise I just say it's bad teams that you be playing.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=alyzar] Did you read anything I just wrote or did you only read that single sentence? Just wondering. Also, I don't play Kat in draft pick so that's not a big issue for me. Not trying to be rude or anything but it seems like you're missing the point, I'm trying to make. I'm not invulnerable to CC, but I can get CCed and then activate QSS and jump to wherever my escape route is, thus wasting any CC they might have, and that's assuming that they have the reaction time that it would take to stun me in the .5 seconds that I'm in the fight before I shunpo away or jump to the next target. Like I said, Katarina is a lot like AP Yi. You need to kill someone with your skills in order to maximize your damage and stay alive. If you're in the same spot for more than a second or two, you're doing it wrong. A fight for me is a series of shunpos onto weakened units or assassinating a single unit and shunpoing out. If I get CCed, I'm extremely durable, I'm fast, I have guardian angel, and I have QSS. I DON'T enter the fight unless what I'm about to do will land me a kill. I DON'T put myself into situations where I will die(although obviously I make mistakes sometimes). I also don't play this in ranked, I play it in normals, and people in normal are admittedly terrible (although on my ranked account, my elo is only 1500ish, so I can't really say much because I'm not all that great either). I ALSO run flash and ghost, instead of the normal exhaust/flash or ignite/flash, so that adds even more mobility to my kit. I don't often get focused because I'm so hit-and-run and if I do stay around long enough to get focused, I have an escape route because I'm not bad at Katarina, and I have 100+ MR and armor, 2.6k HP, and other forms of tankiness that make me harder to kill than your average Katarina. [/quote] Yes I did. I always read the entire post if I'm going to respond to it. Usually the whole thread too. The problem with your super-stacked-one-shot-blink-every-.5-seconds playstyle is that it requires you to be SO MONSTROUSLY FED that you can 1-shot anybody on the enemy team with [[Shunpo]]. Your playstyle doesn't allow you to use your ult (since you never get CC'd apparently) and doesn't allow you to enter a fight until the enemy team is in chaos. This means one of two things. Your enemies are so ridiculously bad and/or your allies are so amazingly good that they can enter a 4v5 and almost kill EVERYBODY, allowing you to sweep up all the low enemies by [[Shunpo]]ing to each one to last-hit them as they die, stealing all of your team's kills. OR You play 100x better than the entire enemy team and snowball to 20 stacks in like 10 minutes, allowing you to burst everyone on the team without even using your ultimate. I'd hardly call that a reliable strategy. See how ridiculous this sounds? Obviously this doesn't actually happen, because it would be pretty much impossible to pull off on a regular basis. All of your games can't go as you describe them, because you'd have to be monstrously fed to last-hit every champion in order to repeatedly [[Shunpo]] without going on cooldown. Since it can't go as perfectly as described, that means THE ENEMY TEAM IS MAKING WAY TOO MANY MISTAKES and can't help but feed you anyway. This makes your strategy non-viable for the majority of players in the majority of games. One more note: With 3 snowballs, what happens if you DO make a mistake and the other team DOES kill you? What happens if you aren't ridiculously fed by mid-game that you can pop [[Shunpo]] endlessly? What happens if your teammates can't win a 4v5 without your ult? I'll tell you. You'll lose.[/quote]

[quote=Icuonuez][quote=alyzar] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=alyzar] If you are in a situation as Katarina where you get focused or get stunned, you're playing her wrong. When I'm playing my best, I don't get stunned, and I sure as hell don't get focused. [/quote] No, the enemy team is playing wrong. Katarina is countered by hard CC (stuns, silences, displacements and suppression). [[Exhaust]] also cuts down her usefulness a lot. If your team is full of disrupters, theirs can be too. If the enemy team sees you picking Kat, they WILL make sure to have some tools to deal with you, whether it be an [[Exhaust]] or two, or several silences and stuns. Even with QSS, you aren't invincible, and you aren't invulnerable to CC. In a perfect world (for your team), your build could be viable. The fact is, you can't count on all your teammates to be doing extremely well, using CC perfectly while the enemy team is completely incompetent and has tunnel-vision. Any smart opponent knows to save CC for Kat's ultimate. I do it every game when I play champions like [[Alistar]], [[Soraka]], [[Ashe]], [[Malphite]] and [[Lee Sin]] to name a handful; just think how many stuns, silences, displacements and suppresses there are in the game. There are plenty of champions who are built for counter-initiation and disruption of champions just like Kat. According to your logic, a [[Fiddlesticks]] with some AP and spellvamp would be able to enter a team fight (after the initiation) and be completely invulnerable because he's channeling drain. Is this realistic? No. Of course you're going to get CC'd. It's what any competent team would do. [/quote] Did you read anything I just wrote or did you only read that single sentence? Just wondering. Also, I don't play Kat in draft pick so that's not a big issue for me. Not trying to be rude or anything but it seems like you're missing the point, I'm trying to make. I'm not invulnerable to CC, but I can get CCed and then activate QSS and jump to wherever my escape route is, thus wasting any CC they might have, and that's assuming that they have the reaction time that it would take to stun me in the .5 seconds that I'm in the fight before I shunpo away or jump to the next target. Like I said, Katarina is a lot like AP Yi. You need to kill someone with your skills in order to maximize your damage and stay alive. If you're in the same spot for more than a second or two, you're doing it wrong. A fight for me is a series of shunpos onto weakened units or assassinating a single unit and shunpoing out. If I get CCed, I'm extremely durable, I'm fast, I have guardian angel, and I have QSS. I DON'T enter the fight unless what I'm about to do will land me a kill. I DON'T put myself into situations where I will die(although obviously I make mistakes sometimes). I also don't play this in ranked, I play it in normals, and people in normal are admittedly terrible (although on my ranked account, my elo is only 1500ish, so I can't really say much because I'm not all that great either). I ALSO run flash and ghost, instead of the normal exhaust/flash or ignite/flash, so that adds even more mobility to my kit. I don't often get focused because I'm so hit-and-run and if I do stay around long enough to get focused, I have an escape route because I'm not bad at Katarina, and I have 100+ MR and armor, 2.6k HP, and other forms of tankiness that make me harder to kill than your average Katarina. [/quote] The simple fact of the matter is, you're not listening to us. I could take four random people at around my elo, and pubstomp your premade team. The reason being is [i]because[/i] you snowball. You, and you alone, would hinder your entire team because of your ignorance to items.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=alyzar] Did you read anything I just wrote or did you only read that single sentence? [/quote] The irony is he was most likely referring to the way CC's counter Kat's ult, not so much that CC is a counter to your build. Of all the champs in this game I think Levi Mejai's SotO best suits Kat. I've only ever seen that build being used in coop - AI games however :P[/quote]

[quote=samgoeslol]y its true you cant rly snowball ahead against a smar team. Kat is simply a great noobstomper in normals and sometimes a strong pick in draft (usually last) but she is countered pretty bad by cc (REAL BAD) and good teams will keep up some cc for yr ultimate -> u r kinda useless :) still dont c why u want to theorycraft jsut for normalgaes and dont even have the ambition to go ranked. you ask for advice, ppl tell you snowball kat is bad and you wont understand. sry but those kinds of posts make me mad. Bad ppl telling other guys about their builds asking for help and dont accept any other opinions. TL;DR: Dont ask if u dont wanna hear the answer greez sam[/quote]

[quote=Chaotic Bliss]When I play kat, I get MsS and Levi, BUT only if things are going well for me and my team. They are extremely situtational, and if you main them, you are sure to have some issues. Hard CC kills Kat when she ults so make sure you go in last. A tip for using snowballs... Try and build a lil tanky. If you get stunned and or silenced, you cant do shit period. So by building a lil tanky you will be able survive a lil longer and hopefully keep ypour stacks.[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn]I'm not saying that you are wrong, snowball items are great if you can stack them and avoid death. But getting any of those items is bad if you play as Kat. Why? Its one CC and shes dead. Please, listen to me, one CC and shes dead. Now imagine the hard work to get 20 stacks. You are a boss, killing everyone. Then, Malzahar ults you. There's no way to avoid death. If Malzahar is alone, maybe you'll run away alive, but if theres another one, even if this another is a support, youre dead. Your idea is good, but it doesnt work that well.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]stacking items are bad in general and relying on them for victory just plants a big ass target on your head.[/quote]

[quote=alyzar]You guys aren't really seeing it and keep saying the same things over and over again so I guess I'll just have to make a couple replays and show you how I do it. I said you guys should try doing it my way yourselves, but none of you seem to be willing to read the mini-guide in depth and actually give it a chance, so replays it is! [quote]The simple fact of the matter is, you're not listening to us. I could take four random people at around my elo, and pubstomp your premade team. The reason being is because you snowball. You, and you alone, would hinder your entire team because of your ignorance to items.[/quote] This comment made me laugh. One, you have 325 wins where as I'm 700/500. Two, you aren't even ranked, where as on my ranked account I'm 1500. Yet somehow your elo is "higher than mine". Kay.[/quote]