Cost effectiveness of masteries - a closer look...

[quote=Searz]Quoted from my guide in the workings. [quote]I'm using only basic items to calculate cost effectiveness. I'm counting PER POINT, not with all the points. "Approximates" means that I had to use an item with more than one stat to calculate the gold effectiveness. I can't get an exact number there. The numbers on those are probably slightly off, but shouldn't be more than 5 gold off (which is a fairly small number). [h2][b]Offense[/b][/h2][wiki=Brute Force color=lightsteelblue] - 41.5g [wiki=Mental Force color=gold] - 21.75g <-- OMG RIOT >.> [wiki=Alacrity color=steelblue] - 28g <-- Riot, you guys make retarded balance choices sometimes.. [wiki=Deadliness color=blue] - 50g [wiki=Vampirism color=crimson] - 37.5g [wiki=Archmage color=red] - 27.2g per 100AP (this is just in the "twenties" because I put an even number like 100 there. It's not low) [b]Approximates[/b]: [wiki=Sorcery color=purple] - 37.5g [h2]Defense[/h2][wiki=Resistance color=royalblue] - 33.33g [wiki=Hardiness color=lightsteelblue] - 33.33g [wiki=Vigor color=dodgerblue] - 29g [wiki=Veteran's Scars color=saddlebrown] - 79.17g [wiki=Mercenary color=gold] - 8g per kill and assist [h2]Utility[/h2][wiki=Meditation color=dodgerblue] - 55.7g [wiki=Wealth color=gold] - 20g <-- OMG RIOT >.> [wiki=Greed color=gold] - 3g/minute 70.5g@25min (1.5 min at the start goes without gold income) [wiki mastery=Perseverance color=gold] - 25.4g per 10HP5&MP5 you have (it's in the "twenties", but also scales with your stats, so it's not bad at all) [b]Approximates[/b]: [wiki=Transmutation color=limegreen] - 22g <-- OMG RIOT >.> [wiki=Intelligence color=gold] - 75g [h2]Per level masteries[/h2][wiki=Blast color=purple] - 5.44g/lvl 98g@lvl18 [wiki=Durability color=royalblue] - 3.96g/lvl 71.25@lvl18 [wiki=Expanded Mind color=purple] - 8g/lvl 144@lvl18 [b]Approximates[/b]: [wiki=Enlightenment color=dodgerblue] - 5.6g/lvl 101g@lvl18 All in all the big problems seem very clear here. Any mastery in the "twenties" (worth below 30gold per point) needs a buff really badly. ----- ----- [h2][b][wiki=Honor Guard color=dodgerblue] and [wiki=Havoc color=red][/b][/h2]They can't be measured precisely, but if I compare them to similar stats I can get a relatively good figure of what they're worth. [b][wiki=Havoc color=red] compared to AD[/b]: 1AD=41.5g Damage = 50 = Havoc is worth ~10.375g (1.005*50-50=0.25damage) Damage = 100 = Havoc is worth ~20.75g (1.005*100-100=0.5damage) Damage = 200 = Havoc is worth ~41.5g (1.005*200-200=1damage) Damage = 400 = Havoc is worth ~83g (1.005*400-400=2damage) Not as bad as I thought. [b][wiki=Honor Guard color=dodgerblue] compared to armor/MR[/b]: 1Armor/MR=16.67g Armor/MR = 25 = Honor Guard is worth ~20.94g ((100+25)/0.995-125=0.628armor AND MR) Armor/MR = 50 = Honor Guard is worth ~25.1g ((100+50)/0.995-150=0.754armor AND MR) Armor/MR = 100 = Honor Guard is worth ~33.5g ((100+100)/0.995-200=1armor AND MR) Armor/MR = 200 = Honor Guard is worth ~50.26g ((100+200)/0.995-300=1.51armor AND MR) So you need more than 100armor and MR to make [wiki=Honor Guard color=dodgerblue] about as good as [wiki=Resistance color=royalblue] and [wiki=Hardiness color=lightsteelblue]. WAY too weak for a tier 5 mastery. Why is it that [wiki=Honor Guard color=dodgerblue] is so much worse than [wiki=Havoc color=red] then? That is because damage reduction has diminishing returns. ANOTHER case of Riot grouping totally different stats together --.--[/quote] Discuss? I am personally of the opinion that Honor Guard should be at 1% per point. That would make the gold values listed above double, and they would be just fine for a mastery that far down in the tree. (just request it if you'd like to see my other "changes") I'd mainly like to discuss Honor Guard, Havoc, Vigor, Transmutation, Greed, Wealth and Awareness here.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]It looks like, in general, the Utility tree has some very weak masteries. Also, [[wealth]] looks bad, but it's 20 starting gold per point. 40g at level 1 is worth far more than 40g at level 2 onwards.[/quote]

[quote=Wintermond]I think that Wealth is a good mastery, simply because you get 40g at the start of the game what can make or break your lane.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]40gold CAN be pretty strong for your lane. But it's very rarely a make or break situation. The fact that you need to spend 4 points in Greed to even reach it makes the mastery horrible right now. Fact: Greed and/or Wealth need buffs.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][[mercenary]] needs 9 kills/assists to be worth it like [[greed]]. In 25 minutes. Definitly needs a buff. I think, increasing it by 50% could work.(Yeah, I can't balance, but this is only an idea.^^) So: 12 / 24 / 36[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Honor guard gets no love because it's not the most efficient :P It's already fine where it is. Greed and wealth are good for supports. I think the entire masteries page is well balanced from top to bottom. I'm having difficulty abusing it this season, whereas the last page was easy to break.[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210]*throws his flag in the defensive tree corner* Long live [[juggernaut]]![/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]All of the final point masteries are fantastic.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]I think you're getting caught up on the fallacy that "higher tier masteries should be worth more gold." Honestly, i feel that unless it's a big one point mastery like veteran scars, or the 21 point mastery, it should be at a baseline. There are weak/situational masteries, and some of them are just bad ([[Evasion]] [[Siege Commander]]) but for the most part, you shouldn't really give more weight to the gold budget of mastery points lower in the tree. That just doesn't seem to be how the tree is designed.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Siege commander isn't bad though. Aside from Evasion and perhaps mercenary, I think almost all the masteries have legitimate merit.[/quote]