Best AP Mid

[quote=GoliathGTX][quote=Vitigam] [quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=Lugignaf] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam][[Kassadin]] (though he is perma-banned) [/quote] wat [/quote] What "wat"? lol [/quote] Kass is an easily countered pick. I ban him because I know other people can't handle him usually. [/quote] Really? Who counters him? I know if you think outside of the meta, he is easily countered. But in regard to other ap mids, who counters him? [/quote] some strong aps vs him are: sion - push lane all day deny farm deny roaming ahueahueahue morde - see sion galio - see sion fizz - jump over silence while landing on his face tons of damage ahueahueahue kennen - play fuckin ballz deep agressive and you will wreck him and then theres a whole slew of AD/bruisers that rape kass. tbh you could stick any bruiser mid vs kass and he would get smashed. [/quote] Ok, I got one question though, I went up against Kass with Galio, I was doing fine pre-6 wiht 50 cs ahead. But as soon as he hit lvl 6 he started raping me, he would just Riftwalk in, dmg me and riftwalk out.. I don't know, I am a decent Galio player, not a pro, but decent. [/quote] I think you can sustain through his [[Riftwalk]] combo with Galio. In that case, just continue to push the lane with skills I guess since you really can't do much to him anyway.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=Lugignaf] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam][[Kassadin]] (though he is perma-banned) [/quote] wat [/quote] What "wat"? lol [/quote] Kass is an easily countered pick. I ban him because I know other people can't handle him usually. [/quote] Really? Who counters him? I know if you think outside of the meta, he is easily countered. But in regard to other ap mids, who counters him? [/quote] some strong aps vs him are: sion - push lane all day deny farm deny roaming ahueahueahue morde - see sion galio - see sion fizz - jump over silence while landing on his face tons of damage ahueahueahue kennen - play fuckin ballz deep agressive and you will wreck him and then theres a whole slew of AD/bruisers that rape kass. tbh you could stick any bruiser mid vs kass and he would get smashed. [/quote] [[Sion]] and [[Mordekaiser]] still don't deny [[Kassadin]] as much as you possibly want to. It allows him to pick up his farm at the tower with [[Nether Blade]] and then just get your items. [[Galio]] doesn't counter kassa at all, becomes a farm fest and kassadin will love that. [[Fizz]] is a very strong pick but a bit risky since you've got to abuse your early lane dominance and you've gotta be good with your [[Playful / Trickster]]. [[Kennen]]?! :O dafuq? I'd say kennen does well early-game but gets stomped after level six. Mages who do very well against him are also [[Morgana]], [[Cassiopeia]], [[Malzahar]] (go [[Cleanse]], bait his burst and kill him), [[Orianna]] and [[Vladimir]]. They don't have to destroy him though. Kassadin can't do much against [[Pantheon]], [[Talon]] and [[Gangplank]]. They are very strong against him.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Temzilla] [quote=CasterMaster] [[kassadin]] counters? I'd go for the best to say [[talon]]. [/quote] Never send a squishy melee vs. Kassadin. [/quote] [[Talon]] is the hardest counter to kassadin despite the fact he is melee. I've managed to beat one with Kassadin but in general, Kassadin loses hard. Voyboy (who wrote the kassa guide on lolpro.com) advices to switch lanes once you're up against a talon.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]A champ I use against Kassadin in mid is AP [[Cho'Gath]]. He has the sustain to make Kassa's harass obsolete and his [[Feral Scream]] makes jungler ganks so easy, even after level 6. Also, [[Feast]] is unaffected by [[Void Stone]].[/quote]

[quote=albableat][quote=temzilla]Never send a squishy melee vs. Kassadin.[/quote] Categorizing [[talon]] as squishy melee is wrong in first place. Definitely not early-mid game. And Caster is right, [[talon]] beats the living crap out of [[kass]]. Anyone who deals high physical damage and has some tankyness does so. I've ran [[Talon]], full AD [[lee sin]], AD Caster (BT stacking)[[Graves]] against Kass mid. All destroy him completely. Just get 2 MR items (Mercs, Hex, I'm thinking) and he cannot do anything. [[Talon]] is the wors out of three since he has his own silence and he bursts harder then Lee and Graves. As for AP's, any tanky AP is good against Kassa, imo. [[ryze]] and [[vladimir]] work just fine. Cassio absolutely shits on Kassadin pre-6.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=albableat] [quote=temzilla]Never send a squishy melee vs. Kassadin.[/quote] Categorizing [[talon]] as squishy melee is wrong in first place. Definitely not early-mid game. And Caster is right, [[talon]] beats the living crap out of [[kass]]. Anyone who deals high physical damage and has some tankyness does so. I've ran [[Talon]], full AD [[lee sin]], AD Caster (BT stacking)[[Graves]] against Kass mid. All destroy him completely. Just get 2 MR items (Mercs, Hex, I'm thinking) and he cannot do anything. [[Talon]] is the wors out of three since he has his own silence and he bursts harder then Lee and Graves. As for AP's, any tanky AP is good against Kassa, imo. [[ryze]] and [[vladimir]] work just fine. Cassio absolutely shits on Kassadin pre-6. [/quote] Does talon have mana problems that he has to fix before he can build defense or damage vs kassadin? Yes. Does Talon have high base damage? No. Can Talon MR stack vs Kassadin? No. Can Kassadin Armor stack vs Talon? Yes. Kassadin can prepare himself for a lane against Talon. Talon can not prepare himself for a lane against Kassadin. I'd say that Kass has the upper hand here. Their skillsets kind of fight each other, so talon has an advantage, but Kassadin doesn't get stomped by talon.[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=Lugignaf] [quote=Vitigam] [quote=EvilDice] [quote=Vitigam][[Kassadin]] (though he is perma-banned) [/quote] wat [/quote] What "wat"? lol [/quote] Kass is an easily countered pick. I ban him because I know other people can't handle him usually. [/quote] Really? Who counters him? I know if you think outside of the meta, he is easily countered. But in regard to other ap mids, who counters him? [/quote] some strong aps vs him are: sion - push lane all day deny farm deny roaming ahueahueahue morde - see sion galio - see sion fizz - jump over silence while landing on his face tons of damage ahueahueahue kennen - play fuckin ballz deep agressive and you will wreck him and then theres a whole slew of AD/bruisers that rape kass. tbh you could stick any bruiser mid vs kass and he would get smashed. [/quote] [[Sion]] and [[Mordekaiser]] still don't deny [[Kassadin]] as much as you possibly want to. It allows him to pick up his farm at the tower with [[Nether Blade]] and then just get your items. [[Galio]] doesn't counter kassa at all, becomes a farm fest and kassadin will love that. [[Fizz]] is a very strong pick but a bit risky since you've got to abuse your early lane dominance and you've gotta be good with your [[Playful / Trickster]]. [[Kennen]]?! :O dafuq? I'd say kennen does well early-game but gets stomped after level six. Mages who do very well against him are also [[Morgana]], [[Cassiopeia]], [[Malzahar]] (go [[Cleanse]], bait his burst and kill him), [[Orianna]] and [[Vladimir]]. They don't have to destroy him though. Kassadin can't do much against [[Pantheon]], [[Talon]] and [[Gangplank]]. They are very strong against him. [/quote] trying to counterargue fizz as labeling him "risky pick" and then listing malz made me lol. also talon/gp/panth all fall into the ad/bruiser category and yes they all get the job done pretty easily. if you are last hitting well and push the creeps to tower you will out farm him. period. you also take map control and deny him roaming, which is a pretty big thing for kass. last hitting at tower is harder than last hitting in lane, period. it is VERY hard to farm all 6 creeps at tower, even with nether blade. if you hit W on galio and buy MR he wont be able to touch you. the point is not to harass him the point is to keep him at tower. like i said for kennen you go ballz deep aggro. you have to play risky and play very well for the matchup to work but i have stomped quite a few kassadins with kennen in my elo (tho hes also my 2nd most played). and yea, the aps you listed are all pretty good, but that is pretty much the point. there are a lot of champs that can beat kassadin and this is why he is never banned or picked in my elo[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]I think the real difference is that jungle ganks absolutely destroy Talon's ability to lane, where Kassadin can sit back and farm under tower, and never die because of his R. He's really strong as a laner, but he can't do anything to people that push. He needs ganks to his lane or he will lose to pushers.[/quote]

[quote=albableat]Talon loses to pushers? O_o I think one of the easiest champs to cs with under the turret, don't know what you're talking about :O His AA damage is perfect, he has an AA timer reset and he can clear waves just as fast as TF or Morgana if you max his W.[/quote]

[quote=albableat][quote=temzilla] Can Talon MR stack vs Kassadin? No. Can Kassadin Armor stack vs Talon? Yes. [/quote] Im interested where you get that from??? Talon can stack MR without problem just like Kass can stack armor. Kind of retarded to say that Talon can't stack MR. Surely it will lower his damage, but just like stacking armor will lower Kass's damage... Merc Treads, natural MR/level and correct runeset result in ~100 MR which is absolutely enough to counter Kassadin's damage.[/quote]