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Generally you come across with good arguments.
I'm just gonna add a few points:
1. Elo-Hell (if we assume it exists) is everywhere, even at Challenger
2. Hard to measure how many trolls there are in each division, but from experience being in silver for 500+ ranked, and gold for 500+ ranked, and platinum for 500+ ranked, and diamond for like 10 games on another account. I've came to the conclusion that each division is as bad as each other when it comes to how many trolls/bad players etc there are, but if i had to decide, platinum is the worse (since diamond i don't have a good cross section of games). Why? well in paltinum you expect players to be good, you expect them to know the fundamentals, so you start getting annoyed when you teach them how to play their champ or how to build, or more frustating, telling them when to go back, and pinging players. I mean at platinum you should have AWARENESS, this is common ground. But you'll find a lot of players don't, they're just dumb. And this stuff is what you associate bad players to be.
3. I think if you communicate well and not flame you do aquire a higher % rate of winning, but 95% of this "win rate" is mainly about luck, your skill-level, how good your team is etc. You cant just rely on "Oh, but i communicated to my team and didn't flame, why am i not diamond?" despite going 0/5 top.
4. Players are stuck in elo hell because they deserve to be there, in the short term, you can say you don't. I used to say that. But if you're still complaining about being in Silver for example after 1000 ranked...well i got bad news for you... You deserve to be there. I've carried troll games before, I recently won a 4v5 game WITH a ryze jungler. So nothing is impossible(this game was at 2k elo)
Want to win more ranked?
1. Increase your chances by not flaming, communicate well with team and most of all learn the fundamentals
2. Find a main role and stick to it, but learn a few other roles just in-case you can't get your main role. for me 90% of my games, I get jungler, even if i'm lastpick. I simply say "Main jungler - hecarim" and i usually get it, probably because my win ratio over games played is pretty good.
3. Keep playing. No matter what happens, you lose 50 games in a row, anything...just keep playing ranked. You won't improve playing normal games, because ranked and normal are completely different. In ranked players are more competitive and driven to win, theres an incentive to win that's why players 'tryhard'. In normal most of the players test builds, and dont actually try that much.
4. Keep playing. I'll say this twice. I've ahd a few friends come to me in gold division, saying 'CBA ranked sux' 'OMG MY TEAM AFK, GRR F*** RANK' etc. I simply say "just keep going". And eventually, a day later, a week or month they're platinum.
Coming back to the topic at hand, Player #3 is someone i associate my playstyle to be.
I generally don't talk at all in the majroity of my games, if i don't talk, then i have no incentive to flame, and i usually play better. Obviously i listen to my team still, and ping, but i don't type anything. Pinging the whereabouts of where my opponent is going should be enough at my ELO for people to go 'back'
Notes: I'm not the best player, and i'm definitely not the best role model for the game, since i troll, flame and do all kinds of ****. I'm not even at high elo to be fair, but i've certainly played a lot more ranked than most people, so I do have the experience.
I'm just gonna add a few points:
1. Elo-Hell (if we assume it exists) is everywhere, even at Challenger
2. Hard to measure how many trolls there are in each division, but from experience being in silver for 500+ ranked, and gold for 500+ ranked, and platinum for 500+ ranked, and diamond for like 10 games on another account. I've came to the conclusion that each division is as bad as each other when it comes to how many trolls/bad players etc there are, but if i had to decide, platinum is the worse (since diamond i don't have a good cross section of games). Why? well in paltinum you expect players to be good, you expect them to know the fundamentals, so you start getting annoyed when you teach them how to play their champ or how to build, or more frustating, telling them when to go back, and pinging players. I mean at platinum you should have AWARENESS, this is common ground. But you'll find a lot of players don't, they're just dumb. And this stuff is what you associate bad players to be.
3. I think if you communicate well and not flame you do aquire a higher % rate of winning, but 95% of this "win rate" is mainly about luck, your skill-level, how good your team is etc. You cant just rely on "Oh, but i communicated to my team and didn't flame, why am i not diamond?" despite going 0/5 top.
4. Players are stuck in elo hell because they deserve to be there, in the short term, you can say you don't. I used to say that. But if you're still complaining about being in Silver for example after 1000 ranked...well i got bad news for you... You deserve to be there. I've carried troll games before, I recently won a 4v5 game WITH a ryze jungler. So nothing is impossible(this game was at 2k elo)
Want to win more ranked?
1. Increase your chances by not flaming, communicate well with team and most of all learn the fundamentals
2. Find a main role and stick to it, but learn a few other roles just in-case you can't get your main role. for me 90% of my games, I get jungler, even if i'm lastpick. I simply say "Main jungler - hecarim" and i usually get it, probably because my win ratio over games played is pretty good.
3. Keep playing. No matter what happens, you lose 50 games in a row, anything...just keep playing ranked. You won't improve playing normal games, because ranked and normal are completely different. In ranked players are more competitive and driven to win, theres an incentive to win that's why players 'tryhard'. In normal most of the players test builds, and dont actually try that much.
4. Keep playing. I'll say this twice. I've ahd a few friends come to me in gold division, saying 'CBA ranked sux' 'OMG MY TEAM AFK, GRR F*** RANK' etc. I simply say "just keep going". And eventually, a day later, a week or month they're platinum.
Coming back to the topic at hand, Player #3 is someone i associate my playstyle to be.
I generally don't talk at all in the majroity of my games, if i don't talk, then i have no incentive to flame, and i usually play better. Obviously i listen to my team still, and ping, but i don't type anything. Pinging the whereabouts of where my opponent is going should be enough at my ELO for people to go 'back'
Notes: I'm not the best player, and i'm definitely not the best role model for the game, since i troll, flame and do all kinds of ****. I'm not even at high elo to be fair, but i've certainly played a lot more ranked than most people, so I do have the experience.
I sound like Player #2 :P I think you need to add a "Player #5" to the list. Someone who plays the role they called for, but poorly, so much so that they lose their lane every game, but get carried by their team, and thus ultimately gain elo/tiers/divisions.
Jexy
<Member>
<Member>
Xiaowiriamu wrote:
Generally you come across with good arguments.
I'm just gonna add a few points:
1. Elo-Hell (if we assume it exists) is everywhere, even at Challenger
2. Hard to measure how many trolls there are in each division, but from experience being in silver for 500+ ranked, and gold for 500+ ranked, and platinum for 500+ ranked, and diamond for like 10 games on another account. I've came to the conclusion that each division is as bad as each other when it comes to how many trolls/bad players etc there are, but if i had to decide, platinum is the worse (since diamond i don't have a good cross section of games). Why? well in paltinum you expect players to be good, you expect them to know the fundamentals, so you start getting annoyed when you teach them how to play their champ or how to build, or more frustating, telling them when to go back, and pinging players. I mean at platinum you should have AWARENESS, this is common ground. But you'll find a lot of players don't, they're just dumb. And this stuff is what you associate bad players to be.
3. I think if you communicate well and not flame you do aquire a higher % rate of winning, but 95% of this "win rate" is mainly about luck, your skill-level, how good your team is etc. You cant just rely on "Oh, but i communicated to my team and didn't flame, why am i not diamond?" despite going 0/5 top.
4. Players are stuck in elo hell because they deserve to be there, in the short term, you can say you don't. I used to say that. But if you're still complaining about being in Silver for example after 1000 ranked...well i got bad news for you... You deserve to be there. I've carried troll games before, I recently won a 4v5 game WITH a ryze jungler. So nothing is impossible(this game was at 2k elo)
Want to win more ranked?
1. Increase your chances by not flaming, communicate well with team and most of all learn the fundamentals
2. Find a main role and stick to it, but learn a few other roles just in-case you can't get your main role. for me 90% of my games, I get jungler, even if i'm lastpick. I simply say "Main jungler - hecarim" and i usually get it, probably because my win ratio over games played is pretty good.
3. Keep playing. No matter what happens, you lose 50 games in a row, anything...just keep playing ranked. You won't improve playing normal games, because ranked and normal are completely different. In ranked players are more competitive and driven to win, theres an incentive to win that's why players 'tryhard'. In normal most of the players test builds, and dont actually try that much.
4. Keep playing. I'll say this twice. I've ahd a few friends come to me in gold division, saying 'CBA ranked sux' 'OMG MY TEAM AFK, GRR F*** RANK' etc. I simply say "just keep going". And eventually, a day later, a week or month they're platinum.
Coming back to the topic at hand, Player #3 is someone i associate my playstyle to be.
I generally don't talk at all in the majroity of my games, if i don't talk, then i have no incentive to flame, and i usually play better. Obviously i listen to my team still, and ping, but i don't type anything. Pinging the whereabouts of where my opponent is going should be enough at my ELO for people to go 'back'
Notes: I'm not the best player, and i'm definitely not the best role model for the game, since i troll, flame and do all kinds of ****. I'm not even at high elo to be fair, but i've certainly played a lot more ranked than most people, so I do have the experience.
You make a point, which entirely stands true.
Myself, I've played ranked a huge lot, and have come to the coclusion that even though I play AP middle for a platinum ranked team, the way that solo queue works is kind of... messed up.
To a certain limit, every "eloheller" have the same attitude towards the game.. Kind of.
//As a reply to the other guy, I made a LEGIT research of these 4 guys, whom were my roommates and therefore had no cause to invite a fifth roommate just for the sakes of this investigation.
We kind of dropped in elo by starting the rankeds right when we leveled 30, as unexperienced and generally bad players, causing us to fall down in elo.
I really enjoyed reading this. +rep :P! good research :3. I'm a bit between player #1 and player #2. Depends on what mood I am hehe! I agree with jhoijhoi btw , add a player #5 :P!
off-topic: I GOT A GREAT LEAAADER CREST YAAAAAAY.
off-topic: I GOT A GREAT LEAAADER CREST YAAAAAAY.
Thanks to Plickz and Alexanpt for the awesome Sigs!
Check out my guide on Skarner, The Crystal Vanguard
DominicanFury809
<Member>
<Member>
I would say i find myself abit like player number 4 i only like going top i'm pretty sure i can win my lane no problem 200+cs per game if laning phase didnt end early. I mostly lose because someone feeds or afks or trolls and just cant do a good job in there lane. I don't like intentionally feeding so i wont go balls deep unless im extremely fed. Some times is just to hard to carry.
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What defines elohell, you may ask?
I've been trying to generalize this term somehow, but it still seems pretty difficult.
It's impossible to give you the exact numbers and divisions, but generally all divisions below gold.
The behaviour in elohell is, and the reason it exists, are players who shamelessly ignore their fellow players, superiority complex and the negative attitude between the players. And ofcourse just general bad players.
This forms another question.
Why are good players stuck in this said "elohell"?
Well, there are several ways to be in there, which I will explain by statistics compiled from 4 players (my roommates) who were at some point at BELOW 1100 ELO.
Player #1 was a very talented player, who had just recently leveled to 30, who was an excellent teammate and who never talked negatively in the chat. Took the game very lightly, played all spots. But not very well. Average KDA 2.1 ELO 1060 (Now Platinum 4)
Over the 4 month period he climbed from 1060 ELO up to the current platinum 4 division, winning games with an amazing win ratio of 73%. This is because he always let players play their best role and taking the unwanted spot himself, executing it carefully, but effectively.
Player #2 was an average player, who got angry very easily, was entirely confident of his own skills, played mainly support. He played the game politely if they were winning, got angry and did unconsidered things if losing. Average KDA 1.7 ELO 920 (Now Bronze 3)
His 4 months were very interesting, with the good days and the bad days. He played 85% of his games as support, winning 47% of the games. This because he was a stubborn person and did not take any advice. And never actually understood his own mistakes but blamed it on somebody else.
The most memorable moment I remember was him playing taric, with 0/10/4 stats, and telling me: "This elohell is quite annoying, 5 people in my team and only I know how to play."
Player #3 was a good player, never talked anything in the chat or champion select, picking what was available, and played the spot he wanted perfectly. But never communicated.
This was enough for a KDA of 2.8 and 1200 ELO (Now Silver 1)
His win ratio in the 4-month period was 66% and got the most honorable opponent honors during this period, of all 4.
Player #4 was the best player of all 4, but was very strictly going middle every game.
If he didn't get the middle spot, he would most likely troll the game, and lose.
This caused him to have up and down days, making his gameplay the most unpredictable of all.
Oh boy and did he flame! His amount of bulldog sht was too much from such a poodle.
He got flamed back, which caused him to lose focus of the game, and pretty much losing it.
His KDA was, nevertheless 3.2, but his attitude made him go down to 570 ELO. (Now gold 3)
How?
We talked to him about the statistics when the new ranked system arrived, we looked at the graphs, and came into a conclusion: in almost 80% of the games are lost due to people lacking overall skill, but focusing on 1 spot too much.
This gave me an idea:
If people were to learn spots equally, this would not cause the removal of the elohell, but it would indeed make every game as good as possible, judging them all equally, not by whether there was one good player on each team or not?
To clarify, people would be able to get losing streaks and drop down in rank, but not due "Dis 1 troll" but due to a very matched skillset which is won by overall skill?
This is a dream world I wish I could believe in.
Anywho, I would like to discuss the rest of this subject in the thread, so please ask questions or contribute to the things said earlier in this thread.