Candid league discussion, Week #1: Is...

[quote=drunken0elf][quote=Pølsemanden] [quote=drunken0elf] Yep. Counterjungling is almost none existant. Most of the time when I am jungling I barely have to buy wards because of the new meta where people buy 2 wards and pots and the sightstone. My jungle entrance is warded by the ward my mid champ placed in his side bush, allowing me to see anyone trying to go for me wraiths and bot lane perma wards their tribush, allowing me and them to see anyone walk into my jungle. Only ward worth buying is the one you shove at baron for some more vision. I rarely counterjungle because it is so risky. I do it a few times, but I generally ping my top laner to shove his lane and roam the enemies jungle for a bit. I'd say counterjungling is very dead, but now, it's all about roaming in the jungle and warding the enemy jungle here and there. It's surprising how many people don't do the red buff in the sight bush allowing for an easy gank. [/quote] is it just me or are you contradicting yourself? [/quote] what i meant was, 1v1 counterjungling = not going to happen. you're gonna need your top and mid laner to come with you, which in result = roaming.[/quote]

[quote=Kuukai85]I feel that the counterjungling is available only for champs with escapes of very strong 1vs1 abilities..it's not a matter of cleaning speed because, as someone said before, everyone wards jungle now. So I think [[Lee Sin]], [[Hecarim]], [[Jarvan IV]] or [[Nocturne]] (but they are not the only ones) can easily do it also pre-6, for the others is not worth doing it.[/quote]

[quote=Totallynotn00b]*shrug*. Its definitely gimped them in more ways than one - Tougher camps = longer in enemy jungle... but also your own. In s2, it wasn't uncommon for the jungler to go to his red just as it was completed by the enemy jungler. Nowadays, fat chance of that happenning. Of course, it depends on whether the lanes react or not to the fact there is an invasion. not uncommon for the jungler to attempt to steal enemy red, do it sloppily, but because his lanes reacted faster he gets away with it. As for mids, to me morde has definitely been less common. Whereas he could take the wraith camps in one cycle of spells before... it's a lot harder now.[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher]I disagree, kuukai85. I think with the prevalence of high cc junglers like voli, vi, j4, and xin, if you get caught in their jungle, you don't have to worry about dueling your way out. They will CC you so hard that you will be picked apart by the jungler and their lanes that come to help. Unless you find them at sub 300 hp, you probably won't be getting out alive. Remember that the bounty on big wraith, big wolf, and big golem have gone up. Stealing one of these can put you over 50+ gold ahead of the enemy jungler, which may not seem like a lot, but it can add up. You're not only gaining 65 gold from the big golem you steal, the enemy jungler is losing WELL over 65 gold from the missed creep and the extra respawn time of the camp. The benefits of counterjungling have undoubtedly gone up, but the risk has increased DRAMATICALLY due to camp health increase and prevalence of junglers you just can't get away from.[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210][quote=throatslasher]The benefits of counterjungling have undoubtedly gone up, but the risk has increased DRAMATICALLY due to camp health increase and prevalence of junglers you just can't get away from.[/quote] TTTHHHIIISSSSS^ I always carry a [[Vision Ward]] these days. Pop it near a buff or river entrance to secure your escape/entry. I love to smite steal over the tree line when you have sight on blue. :3[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=throatslasher] The benefits of counterjungling have undoubtedly gone up, but the risk has increased DRAMATICALLY due to camp health increase and prevalence of junglers you just can't get away from. [/quote] Are you shitting me? The benefits of counterjungling haven't gone up. At least not the hardcore, i'm gonna go into your jungle kill you then leave you fucked up for the rest of the game. Remember S1, if you killed a mana-reliant champ early you fucked up their whole game, if that isn't high reward i don't know what is.[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210][quote=Pølsemanden]Remember S1, if you killed a mana-reliant champ early you fucked up their whole game, if that isn't high reward i don't know what is.[/quote] So thats what you consider balanced? I mean herp derp McGillicutty, of course it isn't as broken as that anymore. The results might not be the same, but like I said before it helps build advantage over the entire map.[/quote]