Failure of feminism

[quote=Searz][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Searz] Sure, enjoy your ignorance. Just make sure you don't infect others with the same stupidity.[/quote] Can it, Searz.[/quote] Gee, how nice of you :) I'm fairly certain of where you're at in this matter, so you might wanna stay away from this thread seeing as how you reacted to a joke last time. [quote=IceCreamy] ^ Thanks for once again confirming why. It's fine if you don't agree with me and try to prove me wrong, no need to be a dick about it. This doesn't apply to just you, also to others.[/quote] Well, you are just running away from the discussion.. If you were gonna do that from the start, why would you comment in the first place?[/quote]

[quote=IceCreamy]I wasn't planning on it, lol. I put my opinion out there, to create some discussion and perhaps get other people's viewpoints, which might even change mine, but I wasn't expecting to get insulted. Since I come to MOBAFire for fun, and getting insulted is not fun, leaving this topic is the only thing left for me to do. And the "Can it, Searz" from PsiGuard was even funny from a neutral viewpoint, I lol'd so hard :D[/quote]

[quote=YayaFTW]You guys really need to master the art of "How not to give a f*ck" u_u Chill it's just the internet, issues and quarrels like these are always expected.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=jhoijhoi] ? What's the difference between a baby conceived from being raped and a baby conceived by accident due to no protection? You can't just say, "Oh, the rape baby doesn't deserve to live." It's pretty hypocritical. An unwanted baby is an unwanted baby, regardless of whether they were conceived by rape or accident. [/quote] That would depend on who you look at as the subject. In your case, you view the conceived as the subject, whereas most counter-arguments would suggest that it is the woman who is the subject. When she is raped and conceives, she is made to conceive against her will. When an accidental baby occurs, she consents to the act, but was irresponsible when it was performed. When she is raped, it's not a matter of irresponsibility. Should the woman then be forced to continue having a child which she was not responsible for the conception of? There is a huge difference. [quote=JhoiJhoi] What if a family of 6 heard they were having another baby and couldn't afford it? You'd rather them have the baby in poverty, or put it up for adoption? [/quote] I don't really get how this is relevant to the previous paragraph. Whether or not they want to keep the child is really the family's decision to make. If they are forced to give the child away for adoption, it doesn't make them value the child any less. If the child was the result of a rape, then it's a different story. [quote=JhoiJhoi] Also, it's fine and dandy to say "face the consequences" when females have to pay heeeaps for contraceptive and remember to take it every day. Can't wait until it's guys who have to take contraceptive pills. It's funny because males are shooting sperm into females - shouldn't the sperm then be rendered inactive, as opposed to altering the female cycle? [/quote] If I recall properly, a condom is for males and caps for females are also possible and don't require heeeeeaps of money. And consensual sex is just that - consensual. If you're stupid enough to have consensual sex whilst unprotected, you'd better damn well be prepared to take a pill every day to avoid unwanted children. Hell, get the guy to pay for them if he doesn't want to end up making the woman pregnant with his unwanted child. I'm sensing a great deal of hostility aimed towards men when women are just as responsible (the case of rapes aside) in consensual sex when accidentally conceiving. Rape is, of course, a different scenario, but the victims in this case can still undergo contraception steps to prevent unwanted pregnancy...[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]^that though it should be mentioned that no form of birth control is 100% effective (short of not having sex), so if you're having sex you should be prepared for the possibility of pregnancy...however slim.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=YayaFTW] You guys really need to master the art of "How not to give a f*ck" u_u[/quote] True, but I don't wanna hear that from you after you've littered the thread with... in lack of a nicer word: stupidity. [quote=sirell] [quote=jhoijhoi] ? What's the difference between a baby conceived from being raped and a baby conceived by accident due to no protection? You can't just say, "Oh, the rape baby doesn't deserve to live." It's pretty hypocritical. An unwanted baby is an unwanted baby, regardless of whether they were conceived by rape or accident.[/quote] That would depend on who you look at as the subject. In your case, you view the conceived as the subject, whereas most counter-arguments would suggest that it is the woman who is the subject. When she is raped and conceives, she is made to conceive against her will. When an accidental baby occurs, she consents to the act, but was irresponsible when it was performed. When she is raped, it's not a matter of irresponsibility. Should the woman then be forced to continue having a child which she was not responsible for the conception of? There is a huge difference.[/quote] Well in this specific discussion it's the conceived that is the subject as I doubt anyone has said anything that would imply otherwise. [quote][quote=JhoiJhoi] What if a family of 6 heard they were having another baby and couldn't afford it? You'd rather them have the baby in poverty, or put it up for adoption?[/quote] I don't really get how this is relevant to the previous paragraph. Whether or not they want to keep the child is really the family's decision to make. If they are forced to give the child away for adoption, it doesn't make them value the child any less. If the child was the result of a rape, then it's a different story. [quote=JhoiJhoi] Also, it's fine and dandy to say "face the consequences" when females have to pay heeeaps for contraceptive and remember to take it every day. Can't wait until it's guys who have to take contraceptive pills. It's funny because males are shooting sperm into females - shouldn't the sperm then be rendered inactive, as opposed to altering the female cycle?[/quote] If I recall properly, a condom is for males and caps for females are also possible and don't require heeeeeaps of money. And consensual sex is just that - consensual. If you're stupid enough to have consensual sex whilst unprotected, you'd better damn well be prepared to take a pill every day to avoid unwanted children. Hell, get the guy to pay for them if he doesn't want to end up making the woman pregnant with his unwanted child. I'm sensing a great deal of hostility aimed towards men when women are just as responsible (the case of rapes aside) in consensual sex when accidentally conceiving. Rape is, of course, a different scenario, but the victims in this case can still undergo contraception steps to prevent unwanted pregnancy...[/quote] These points are very valid however. +1[/quote]

[quote=Bioalchemist][quote=PsiGuard] Jai if you insist on repeatedly commenting on abortion instead of staying on topic, I suggest you make your own thread about it. [/quote] not taking sides in this debate as I know better....but yeah these off-topics really need to try to stay on track...because 'hot topics' like abortion always lead to anger and people yelling at one another (along with a number of other topics including cuddowls favorite of religion). lets all try to get along here and go down vote some new guides instead ;)[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Bioalchemist] lets all try to get along here and go [b]down vote some new guides instead ;)[/b] [/quote] On it[/quote]

[quote=sirell]Well, if the conceived is the subject, then it becomes more complicated. We try to talk about the interests of the conceived, when the conceived is not even self-aware, which is to say that it has no interests that we can be aware of. To talk about future interests is even more pointless, because to talk in obscurity only leads to more obscurity. So to talk about the conceived as the subject is... well... problematic at best. Though if I'm honest, I fail to see the direct relevance from the conceived as the subject to the talk of feminism. The only certain point is that if every mother committed abortion, the human race would inevitably die out. So there must be at least some cases in which children must be born. But then there is no necessity that it be the raped mothers who do not want the child to have the child. If all these raped mothers, who did not want their child, had an abortion, there would still remain the majority of mothers who had children and wanted them; the human race would live on. It is not a contradictory, self-destructive thought, nor actually directly undesirable. The interests of the involved parties are preserved (keeping in mind that newly conceived do not have interests and, if they did, do not have the capacity to understand their interests).[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=sirell] Well, if the conceived is the subject, then it becomes more complicated. We try to talk about the interests of the conceived, when the conceived is not even self-aware, which is to say that it has no interests that we can be aware of. To talk about future interests is even more pointless, because to talk in obscurity only leads to more obscurity. So to talk about the conceived as the subject is... well... problematic at best. Though if I'm honest, I fail to see the direct relevance from the conceived as the subject to the talk of feminism.[/quote] That's exactly it. There is none. The thread went from feminism to religion to abortion. Off topic is famous for such things :) I see nothing wrong with that specific part of Jhoi's comment in this context, even though the other parts of it were rather.. silly. [quote]The only certain point is that if every mother committed abortion, the human race would inevitably die out. So there must be at least some cases in which children must be born.[/quote] This isn't really relevant to the topic being discussed.[/quote]