Atma's Impaler Renekton

[quote=Andrax1][quote=DillButt64] why? AoE is so much better for renekton due to having 3 AoE abilities [/quote] [quote=Hannul] are you trying to play renek like an assassin [/quote] At this point it's probably important to discuss the role of Renekton. The way I play him is similar to how [[Zac]], [[Aatrox]], and [[Shyvana]] are played, lets call them divers. In teamfights I use my gap closer [[slice and dice]] to dive towards the backline in order to kill or at the very least get the carries low to zone them out so they cant participate in the fight. Unlike assassins, they do not hide or go in only when they wont be focused or cc'd, which is why divers need to build tanky. The other role people seem to be suggesting is an AOE dps tank. The best guy that does that is obviously [[singed]]. The reason why he's good at it is because he does an insane amount with his poison and his trail gives him a big AOE. Let's talk a bit about other AOE champs first before we get to my point. Some notable AOE champs are [[Miss Fortune]], [[Rumble]], [[Gragas]], [[Annie]], and [[Malphite]]. The first three deal a huge amount of damage with their ult and they also have a huge AOE, the last two while they have less AOE size than [[Renekton]], do more damage and also have that huge CC combined with the AOE. The reason why I think [[Renekton]] is not an effective AOE champ is because he does not have a large AOE, he does not have any CC in his AOE kit, nor does he do significant amounts of damage with his AOE, meaning he has no qualities which make him a good AOE champ. Because Renekton's AOE is an area around his body, he cant deal it without being next to people therefore it is very unlikely that you will be dealing your AOE to more than two people at a time because of the fact that in teamfights or pretty much anywhere outside the fountain, enemy champions never conveniently stand so close next to each other. This is why I believe single target dps/burst is more important to Renekton than AOE. Because as a diver he needs more single target damage output so he can kill or zone the enemy carries effectively.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]but shyvana and zac are AoE DPS tanks...theyre also divers too please tell me you arnt building atmas on those two[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=DillButt64] but shyvana and zac are AoE DPS tanks...theyre also divers too please tell me you arnt building atmas on those two [/quote] Not really "AoE DPS tanks" because Zac is a burster and Shyvana doesn't rely on her AOE to do most of her damage. Also terrible idea on AP scaling Zac, haven't really played Shyvana so don't know much about her to actually say anything about it.[/quote]

[quote=DarkAkumaLord]I came in. Read pg 1 5 6 and 7. I'm already giving up on you. Glhf bronzie. His meta build is actually what I do use though. If I didn't use hydra or cleaver, I'd use maw or warmogs[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Andrax1] [quote=DillButt64] but shyvana and zac are AoE DPS tanks...theyre also divers too please tell me you arnt building atmas on those two [/quote] Not really "AoE DPS tanks" because Zac is a burster and Shyvana doesn't rely on her AOE to do most of her damage. Also terrible idea on AP scaling Zac, haven't really played Shyvana so don't know much about her to actually say anything about it. [/quote] Zac doesn't burst. he's sustained AoE DPS. Shyvana is a mix of AoE DPS and single target. Dp you like not know how to determine whats AoE focused or not? As for Renekton, he can murder damn near any squishy with just a sunfire cape. Why are we bothering to try atma's again?[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=OTGBionicArm]Zac doesn't burst. he's sustained AoE DPS. Shyvana is a mix of AoE DPS and single target. Dp you like not know how to determine whats AoE focused or not? As for Renekton, he can murder damn near any squishy with just a sunfire cape. Why are we bothering to try atma's again? [/quote] Pretty much assuming instantly applied ability damage is burst and sustained/over time/aura ability damage is dps. Why be content with having the stats you get with the meta build when you can have better stats? And with my experience playing Renekton, his ability to kill squishies falls off mid-late game.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]No. [[Zac]] and [[Shyvana]] have very short cooldowns on their abilities, for the most part. They don't exactly kill things outright (burst). They melt things down consistently (DPS). Renekton has a bit of burst to him (His W) but also pretty good AoE DPS through his ult and Q, plus the core Sunfire Cape. His ONLY burst ability is his W, and I'll re-iterate that he doesn't even need offensive items to kill squishies. Also the stats on the items suggested arent better than the meta build. Renekton seldom auto attacks so why would you bother using Atma's? The crit is wasted. Secondly you're pumping a butt load of gold into flat health with Warmog's just to fuel the AD on the damn thing.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=OTGBionicArm] No. [[Zac]] and [[Shyvana]] have very short cooldowns on their abilities, for the most part. They don't exactly kill things outright (burst). They melt things down consistently (DPS). Renekton has a bit of burst to him (His W) but also pretty good AoE DPS through his ult and Q, plus the core Sunfire Cape. His ONLY burst ability is his W, and I'll re-iterate that he doesn't even need offensive items to kill squishies. [/quote] What I was referring to as AOE dps was singed poison trail, damage aura, fiddlesticks ult, [[spirit fire]] etc. And I'll reiterate myself too, single target DPS/Burst potential is more important to him than AOE damage. Of course you don't need any item to kill any champion, but you need offensive items to do it faster. [quote] Also the stats on the items suggested arent better than the meta build. Renekton seldom auto attacks so why would you bother using Atma's? The crit is wasted. Secondly you're pumping a butt load of gold into flat health with Warmog's just to fuel the AD on the damn thing.[/quote] Uhh, no. I wonder how many times I have to repeat myself? Renekton's cooldowns are too long to not be doing anything in between cooldowns. 8 seconds is the shortest cooldown so you wont be spamming any abilities as [[renekton]]. Crit works on the first strike on W meaning you have a very high nuking potential with IE. And again, even if you don't count the crit chance, atma's impaler is stupidly cost efficent. Warmog's is also very gold efficient. The Wreck-A-Ton build gives you more DPS while giving practically the same defensive stats and more HP Tips in reading the chart, when a number is larger than another that means it's more.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]That's all fine and dandy but again we're talking about a champion who's damage comes PRIMARILY from his ability damage, therefore flat AD and Armor pen will always benefit him more than any form of crit or auto attacking enhancing modifiers, making your entire suggestion rather silly. Ignoring the argument of burst vs. DPS, your entire is theory is moot on that regard. Bruisers seldom use their auto attacks. Renekton generally only does when his abilities are on cooldown (a common bruiser trait), this means using Atmas for "higher single target damage!" is actually lower single target damage because you're wasting gold on an item with critical chance he isn't going to use (well). It's unreliable and just plain out bad when compared to Renekton's commonly built damage items (Hydra/LW/Cleaver). Im all for breaking the meta, but come on, you atleast need to have some real reasoning behind it. Your theory isn't even a dynamic shift in his playstyle, it's just a terrible build with the same overall goal as the popular one. Another question comes to mind. Why are you playing Renekton? Clearly you have an issue with bruisers who dish out damage early on but default to meatshields later because their damage falls off. Why not play something that actually utilizes Crit well, like [[Jayce]] or [[Yasuo]]? I know they aren't as beefy, but they probably do that whole single target damage thing better than renekton.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=OTGBionicArm] That's all fine and dandy but again we're talking about a champion who's damage comes PRIMARILY from his ability damage, therefore flat AD and Armor pen will always benefit him more than any form of crit or auto attacking enhancing modifiers, making your entire suggestion rather silly. Ignoring the argument of burst vs. DPS, your entire is theory is moot on that regard.[/quote] Crit is only useless if you're being useless while you wait for your cooldowns. If you do not like IE you can always get [[Bloodthirster]]. Once again even if Atma's did not have that crit it would still be stupidly cost efficient. [quote]Bruisers seldom use their auto attacks. Renekton generally only does when his abilities are on cooldown (a common bruiser trait), this means using Atmas for "higher single target damage!" is actually lower single target damage because you're wasting gold on an item with critical chance he isn't going to use (well). It's unreliable and just plain out bad when compared to Renekton's commonly built damage items (Hydra/LW/Cleaver).[/quote] So bruisers seldom autoattack? Jax is classified as an ADC? AD sion is probably a myth. Aatrox is a bug. Every 8 seconds you do about 6-7 auto attacks, 8 seconds is the [[renekton]]'s shortest cooldown, there is no excuse to not be autoattacking during that period. [quote]Im all for breaking the meta, but come on, you atleast need to have some real reasoning behind it. Your theory isn't even a dynamic shift in his playstyle, it's just a terrible build with the same overall goal as the popular one.[/quote] If you've actually read the thread even just the OP I've posted pages worth of reasoning behind each item and behind why this build works. [quote]Another question comes to mind. Why are you playing Renekton? Clearly you have an issue with bruisers who dish out damage early on but default to meatshields later because their damage falls off. Why not play something that actually utilizes Crit well, like [[Jayce]] or [[Yasuo]]? I know they aren't as beefy, but they probably do that whole single target damage thing better than renekton. [/quote] Clearly since you don't do anything useful after using abilities you seem pretty interested in being a mindless meatsheild. I however, am not interested in being a meatshield which is why I'm actually building to not be a meatsheild.[/quote]