Atma's Impaler Renekton

[quote=Andrax1][quote=mastrer1000] we were referring to the base damages of renke'S abilities, not to his base ad. [/quote] Not really, he scales a lot off of AD but higher base damages on his abilities compared to other champs? not really the case. And why is this even relevant?[/quote]

[quote=sirell]He already said why Atma's stats were bad, you're just dense as hell. Put simply, [[renekton]] doesn't put crit stats to good use, because he doesn't really autoattack (and when he does, it already has a pretty good steroid on W). He also gains a pretty mediocre amount of AD based off his hp. Comparatively, [[sunfire cape]] has a universal stat - hp, along with a decent passive that's strong during the early-mid game, since [[renekton]] has amazing sticking power. Since his base damages are high, he can have a dominating laning phase whilst itemizing for tankiness instead of damage. HP is a universal stat, even if champions have %hp damage (not counting every 3rd proc, you still need hp and armour to withstand [[vayne]]'s first two attacks). Also, on the topic of dying to [[annie]] and then saying, 'I did my job' - that's really fucking stupid. As a tank, you are meant to absorb the damage, BUT you aren't meant to die. Look at lots of pro games - at end-game, they don't die much either. Why? Because dying is FUCKING STUPID. It's called [i]feeding[/i]. Since [[annie]]'s abilities are also AoE stun, it's more than likely that not just you are caught, but some of your teammates have been hit too. Dying at the beginning of a teamfight NEVER puts you at an advantage. What kind of bs common sense were you using when you made that statement?[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=sirell] He already said why Atma's stats were bad, you're just dense as hell. Put simply, [[renekton]] doesn't put crit stats to good use, because he doesn't really autoattack (and when he does, it already has a pretty good steroid on W). He also gains a pretty mediocre amount of AD based off his hp. Comparatively, [[sunfire cape]] has a universal stat - hp, along with a decent passive that's strong during the early-mid game, since [[renekton]] has amazing sticking power.[/quote] The only negative about atma's I see is the presence of crit. Once again I find myself needing to repeat myself. Even if you dont count the cost of crit chance, atma's impaler is fully cost efficient at 2867 HP, which gives you 43 AD. And at 4000 HP you get 60 AD. Sunfire is barely cost efficient. With atma's you can simply build health because you already have one armor/AD item. [quote]Since his base damages are high, he can have a dominating laning phase whilst itemizing for tankiness instead of damage. HP is a universal stat, even if champions have %hp damage (not counting every 3rd proc, you still need hp and armour to withstand [[vayne]]'s first two attacks).[/quote] Again, his base damages are not high and falls off. I get more HP from this build than the meta build. [quote]Also, on the topic of dying to [[annie]] and then saying, 'I did my job' - that's really fucking stupid. As a tank, you are meant to absorb the damage, BUT you aren't meant to die. Look at lots of pro games - at end-game, they don't die much either. Why? Because dying is FUCKING STUPID. It's called [i]feeding[/i]. Since [[annie]]'s abilities are also AoE stun, it's more than likely that not just you are caught, but some of your teammates have been hit too. Dying at the beginning of a teamfight NEVER puts you at an advantage. What kind of bs common sense were you using when you made that statement? [/quote] I never said anything about dying, if I did then yes that would be fucking stupid. I said that if you can get annie to stun only you instead of AOE stunning your team, which is what makes [[annie]] devastating in teamfights, you did your job, very well I might add. Your job as a tank is to absorb damage, at least as [[renekton]] you have no way of directly getting the enemies to use their abilities or attack you instead of your teammates. By being a huge threat because you're DIVING their backline, the carries, that is exactly what you are doing. Ofc by diving through the enemy team, [[annie]] cannot stun you and anyone else in your team because you'll be inside their team instead of being next to your own teammates. If you get stunned before you dived then diving is not the problem is it? I read somewhere before that mobafire has a friendly community where you can discuss league, that's just really funny at this point.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]its friendly as long as you arent stubborn about something as bad as this build, if you see a kid touching a hot stove and you tell him no, then he keeps doing it after you say no you say no again, but HE KEEPS BURNING HIMSELF ON THE STOVE then you start yelling no, normally the child would stop touching the stove you however still have your hand on the hot stove[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=DillButt64] its friendly as long as you arent stubborn about something as bad as this build, if you see a kid touching a hot stove and you tell him no, then he keeps doing it after you say no you say no again, but HE KEEPS BURNING HIMSELF ON THE STOVE then you start yelling no, normally the child would stop touching the stove you however still have your hand on the hot stove [/quote] I wish there was an actual argument in there. With this build I get more defensive stats, I get more damage output, it's cheaper, how is this build even slightly bad for me? I've seen political forums with active republican and democrats friendlier than this.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Andrax1] With this build I get more defensive stats [/quote] Wat. First of all, your 'meta build' isn't even the meta build. A typical [[renekton]] build is 4 tank items, 1 damage items and boots. You currently have 2 damage items. And, if you did want to go double damage items, there are better options than [[atma's impaler]]. If I throw in a [[thornmail]] or a [[guardian angel]], there's no possibility of your alternate builds having more defensive stats. The simple fact that you replace [[sunfire cape]] with [[atma's impaler]] already throws your 'my build is tankier' argument out the window. Sure, [[sunfire cape]] is not a very cost-efficient item. However, it is a very good tank item with a strong passive which deals damage over time. On top of this, this one item alone lets [[renekton]] instaclear waves with one rotation of spells (the other one being [[ravenous hydra]]). In comparison, [[atma's impaler]] can't match its utility to do this and gives no more extra effective hp. As was already mentioned, crit is a fair useless stat on [[renekton]] because he barely autoattacks. The [[atma's impaler]] AD is pretty negligible by the time you get it. By giving [[renekton]] stats HE DOES NOT USE, you are essentially wasting gold anyway. I would rather pay the extra for a [[sunfire cape]] and be able to use every bit of it. Also in the middle of a team-fight, the AoE damage from [[sunfire cape]] would do a heck lot more than some shitty 60AD for [[renekton]]'s somewhat moderate AD scalings (not to mention [[sunfire cape]] doesn't have CD on abilities in order to utilise the extra damage, unlike [[atma's impaler]]). And apparently 180 damage at 50 fury isn't high base damage. Who knew. I've followed SoloRenektonOnly for quite a while now and he's arguably one of the best [[renekton]]s in the world with over 1000 [[renekton]] games. He says that [[renekton]] has high base damage and judging from what I just said, I'm inclined to agree with him. If he says it, then it's hardly going to be wrong. It seems you don't understand [[renekton]] at all. With your (obviously less tankier) build, it will be harder to dive through the enemy team alive and assassinate anyone. But yeah, way to go repeating a good chunk of what I said anyway. The point is that you can't withstand as much damage as building meta [[renekton]] would be. You can talk about the MOBAFire community being nicer as a whole, but I'm not the community as a whole. I have always been hypercritical to any guide I assess. The same holds for theorycrafting threads. You don't like it, you can always leave or learn to deal with it.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=sirell] Wat. First of all, your 'meta build' isn't even the meta build. A typical [[renekton]] build is 4 tank items, 1 damage items and boots. You currently have 2 damage items. And, if you did want to go double damage items, there are better options than [[atma's impaler]]. If I throw in a [[thornmail]] or a [[guardian angel]], there's no possibility of your alternate builds having more defensive stats. The simple fact that you replace [[sunfire cape]] with [[atma's impaler]] already throws your 'my build is tankier' argument out the window.[/quote] First of all yes it is the meta build, it is the top build and the most common build in mobafire, it is how Renekton is built in tournament games, it is how Renekton is most commoly built in top tier competition as seen in probuilds. [quote]Sure, [[sunfire cape]] is not a very cost-efficient item. However, it is a very good tank item with a strong passive which deals damage over time. On top of this, this one item alone lets [[renekton]] instaclear waves with one rotation of spells (the other one being [[ravenous hydra]]). In comparison, [[atma's impaler]] can't match its utility to do this and gives no more extra effective hp. As was already mentioned, crit is a fair useless stat on [[renekton]] because he barely autoattacks. The [[atma's impaler]] AD is pretty negligible by the time you get it. By giving [[renekton]] stats HE DOES NOT USE, you are essentially wasting gold anyway. I would rather pay the extra for a [[sunfire cape]] and be able to use every bit of it. Also in the middle of a team-fight, the AoE damage from [[sunfire cape]] would do a heck lot more than some shitty 60AD for [[renekton]]'s somewhat moderate AD scalings (not to mention [[sunfire cape]] doesn't have CD on abilities in order to utilise the extra damage, unlike [[atma's impaler]]).[/quote] 40 magic damage per second is in no way a "strong" passive. Besides the fact that it's very small, it can easily be blocked by the magic resist a champion gains as he levels. It is terrible for turret diving because it pulls turret aggro before you even attack the enemy, and you cant attack the tower with an enemy nearby because if he simply stands near you the turret will attack you. "Crit is a useless stat on [[renekton]] because he barely autoattacks" I'm sorry but I really have to say that you don't know shit about Renekton. After you use your abilities you WILL have to auto attack because Renekton's abilities have a long cooldown for an AD caster and his abilities do not have a huge impact in fights unlike [[Malphite]], [[Amumu]], or [[Jarvan IV]], your abilities move you around, stun a target for 1.5 seconds, AOE lifesteal, and [[Dominus]], you dont combo and press R to have had an impact on the fight. And you don't just stand there to deal damage with dominus because that would be stupid, dominus doesn't even do as much dps as [[shyvana]]'s [[burnout]], and doesn't even scale off of AD, so if you thought that you're supposed to do that, you're mistaken. The point why people take Renekton over other tanks and why they take damage items on him is because he doesn't just go in, use his abilities and look like a tool, the reason you take Renekton over other tanks is to get more "AD" damage in if you think your team is lacking in that department not to stand around being useless. [quote]And apparently 180 damage at 50 fury isn't high base damage. Who knew. I've followed SoloRenektonOnly for quite a while now and he's arguably one of the best [[renekton]]s in the world with over 1000 [[renekton]] games. He says that [[renekton]] has high base damage and judging from what I just said, I'm inclined to agree with him. If he says it, then it's hardly going to be wrong. It seems you don't understand [[renekton]] at all.[/quote] Uhh, exactly which ability on which level are you talking about? Lets just bring them out, [[cull the meek]], [[Ruthless Predator]], [[Slice and Dice]], [[Dominus]] now lets get other abilities to compare to[[dark flight]],[[Blades of torment]],[[Burnout]],[[flame breath]],[[three talon strike]],[[audacious charge]]. So if you're comparing to like a minion's damage, then yes, [[renekton]]'s base damages are high, but if you're comparing to actual champions then no. It's really funny that you drag in solorenektononly's name in here when you don't even know his build. His build IS the meta build. [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/s4-top-lane-god-renekton-solorenektononly-326482]Dumbass[/url]. [quote]With your (obviously less tankier) build, it will be harder to dive through the enemy team alive and assassinate anyone. But yeah, way to go repeating a good chunk of what I said anyway. The point is that you can't withstand as much damage as building meta [[renekton]] would be. You can talk about the MOBAFire community being nicer as a whole, but I'm not the community as a whole. I have always been hypercritical to any guide I assess. The same holds for theorycrafting threads. You don't like it, you can always leave or learn to deal with it. [/quote] Obviously less tankier build than what build? I have no clue what build you're comparing mine against because it's definitely not your idol solorenektononly's because that's the meta build. Assuming it's an imaginary four defensive item build. It would also be hard to assassinate anyone without the damage needed to assassinate them wouldn't it? Especially since you're just standing around looking like an idiot after you use your abilities. I hope you dont mind me if I treat you in the same degree of respect you've shown me from now on, it also depends upon the degree of intelligence I see from your posts.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]IE is a crap item on Renekton because it doesnt give health and CDR like BC, and it doesnt give lifesteal or Waveclear like Ravenous hydra (Not that I build Ravenous Hydra anyway). You cant build DPS or Burst renekton simply because once you get out of lane you have a w that you're going to peel for your CARRIES with, an e that you use as a gapcloser on nobody in particular and an ultimate that isn't used for damage. And you're not going to be auto attacking. The only reason you're build has better defeensive stats than the other builds is Warmogs armor, which I dont have a problem with, but Atmas is NOT a good offensive item because 40 damage<50 and CDR or 70 damage and life steal from BC or hydra. And the AD per % health seems to be the only reason you're using it, otherwise why not get a thorn mail and get even higher base stats than before? TLDR: I actually tried Atmas impaler on Rnekton (I was something like 15-5 and we were losing at the time) and it didnt do any noticeable damage, because Renekton out of lane doesn't DO a lot of noticeable damage.[/quote]

[quote=Xiaowiriamu]Atmas sucks. [b]Core:[/b] spirit visage, and sunfire [b]Situational:[/b] randiuns, botrk, frozen mallet, last whisper, bloodthirster, warmogs, hydra, black cleaver and maw of mal. [b]General vs ad build:[/b] core + randiuns + cleaver + hydra [b]General vs ap build:[/b] core + maw of mal + cleaver + hydra[/quote]

[quote=-NA- Veng Lmfao]This guy is still going isn't he? I'd love to see you treat Sirell like he's treating you, because your jimmies will be rustled. I'll go grab my popcorn![/quote]