Atma's Impaler Renekton

[quote=Andrax1][quote=-NA- Veng Lmfao] 'I'm pretty sure the numbers are on my side' Your supposed 'build' works on paper. That's where it stops. You're listing off the stats and potential that this build CAN achieve. You're not factorizing in the fact that you will get completely merked by anybody that has some form of burst, true damage or % damage. Which is basically the vast majority of played champions in the current meta.[/quote] The only advantage the meta build has over this build defensively is that it %HP damage would be less effective against the meta build. The safe atma's build can resist AP burster's damage better than the meta build and still be practically as resistant to physical damage. Against true damage this build is better because true damage ignores armor and you have more HP to absorb it. [quote]You're also playing a tanky bruiser in the role of an Assassin. An assassin that has no blink and no burst damage. How will you be able to get anywhere near your focused target, if a simple combination of [[disintegrate]] >> [[summon: tibbers]] >> [[incinerate]] will kill you. Your team will see you picking [[renekton]]. A tanky champion. Therefore, the support might opt to go with someone like [[janna]] or [[lulu]] instead of a tanky champion like [[leona]] or [[taric]].[/quote] The point is not to make Renekton into an assassin but to give him more damage output while being just as tanky. And both aims are achieved. [[disintegrate]] >> [[summon: tibbers]] >> [[incinerate]] will kill the meta build before it kills this build. And if the enemy team focuses all their damage to you in teamfights is your job as "the tank" not achieved sucessfully? [quote]EDIT: I'm genuinely not trying to insult you. You asked for Dill to expand on his argument, so I decided to put my 13 cents in. Please don't take it like I'm trying to attack you. [/quote] It's perfectly fine since you did say why you believe my build is bad. And I am trying to get people to discuss why they think this build is bad rather than just dicking around.[/quote]

[quote=-NA- Veng Lmfao]What do you mean, this build is better against true damage? You use that attitude against [[vayne]] players? [[silver bolts]] + [[blade of the ruined king]] will kill you before you can even cast your ult to save yourself. This build is making you selfish tanky. You don't have a [[randuin's omen]]. [[warmog's armor]] is a selfish item that benefits yourself. There are other options that are not only better, but aid your team aswell. 'before it kills this build' - your build was never alive, it can't be killed. It's garbage. It's never going to be used successfully at any division above wood 3. 'And if the enemy team focuses all their damage to you in teamfights is your job as "the tank" not achieved sucessfully?' - Oh yeah, the enemy team using a few auto attacks and a single ability to take you out is really helping your team as a tank. You're supposed to be a bodyguard! Somebody that can absorb anything and everything without taking a scratch of damage. If the enemy team can take you out that quickly, you might aswell splitpush. You're so naive and stubborn towards this build, it's making my head spin...[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=-NA- Veng Lmfao] What do you mean, this build is better against true damage? You use that attitude against [[vayne]] players? [[silver bolts]] + [[blade of the ruined king]] will kill you before you can even cast your ult to save yourself. [/quote] As I've said, you can absorb true damage better because you have more HP. [[blade of the ruined king]] deals a fixed 5% physical damage based on current health, 15% with the active. The meta build is better against it simply because you have more armor to resist the bonus phys damage blade gives. Against true bolts Vayne will deal the same percent of damage for both builds. [quote]This build is making you selfish tanky. You don't have a [[randuin's omen]]. [[warmog's armor]] is a selfish item that benefits yourself. There are other options that are not only better, but aid your team aswell. [/quote] [[frozen mallet]] is better for peeling and letting your team catch up to people you've caught off. [quote]'before it kills this build' - your build was never alive, it can't be killed. It's garbage. It's never going to be used successfully at any division above wood 3. [/quote] great argument [quote]'And if the enemy team focuses all their damage to you in teamfights is your job as "the tank" not achieved sucessfully?' - Oh yeah, the enemy team using a few auto attacks and a single ability to take you out is really helping your team as a tank. You're supposed to be a bodyguard! Somebody that can absorb anything and everything without taking a scratch of damage. If the enemy team can take you out that quickly, you might aswell splitpush. [/quote] I'm addressing what you were saying about [[Annie]] dedicating all her abilities just to stop you from reaching the backline. If you can get their [[Annie]] to use her stun only on you in a teamfight I'd say you're being a great tank. If you want to be a "bodyguard" then pick someone that can actually be a "bodyguard" like [[alistar]]/[[Shen]]/[[nunu]]. [[Renekton]] is terrible in that respect since he only has one single target CC ability which has only a maximum duration of 1.5 seconds, and staying with your backline means you wont be dealing any AOE damage in your AOE heavy kit, you'll be a meatsheild more than anything else and since you can't actually get people to attack you instead of your carries, you'll be some kind of decoration instead of being even a meatshield. [quote]You're so naive and stubborn towards this build, it's making my head spin...[/quote] If I'm proven wrong I have no problem accepting it. How would it benefit me if I stick with this build when it makes me play worse than I could be playing?[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]we cant prove you wrong because yes your build does offer more theoretical DPS than the meta build, what were trying to say is that this is a shit build for -RENEKTON- you dont play renekton because his first part of his stun can crit you play him because he has huge base damages and can get really tanky while dealing AoE damage, and before you say it no your build is not as tanky as the meta build also "Frozen Mallet is better for peeling and letting your team catch up to people you've caught off." randuins is much better since its AoE and offers much better stats[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]After thinking about it and checking stats and whatnot, fiddling around with builds I realize that [[Randuin's Omen]] is probably generally a better choice over [[Frozen Mallet]] 200hp doesn't give you a lot more AD with [[atma's impaler]]. I really liked the FM passive but it's probably not as good as Randuins's Omen. Switching out FM in the charts and stuff [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theory-crafting/atmas-impaler-renekton-26816#comment-905061]in the OP[/url]. [quote=DillButt64] we cant prove you wrong because yes your build does offer more theoretical DPS than the meta build, what were trying to say is that this is a shit build for -RENEKTON- you dont play renekton because his first part of his stun can crit you play him because he has huge base damages and can get really tanky while dealing AoE damage, and before you say it no your build is not as tanky as the meta build also "Frozen Mallet is better for peeling and letting your team catch up to people you've caught off." randuins is much better since its AoE and offers much better stats [/quote] Bit of awkward timing. Just switched out FM for Randuin's. So you can check the stats, everything is better. FM IS better for peeling though. Becuase Randuin's is only an active which lasts only for a few seconds, it's better for slowing the whole enemy team when you're inside their ranks.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]it lasts longer than a second if you build more resistances instead of shitty items like atmas EDIT: the active actually lasts for 2 seconds, but still its longer if you dont build shitty items like atmas[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]Let's Bring up Atma's Impaler shall we? [columns][nextcol][[atma's impaler]] Cost: 2300 Gold Value 45 armor = 900g 15% critical strike chance = 750g Total Gold Value = 1650g Passive Gold Value 15 attack damage (for every 1000 Health) = 540g Gold Efficiency Atma's Impaler is gold efficient if the champion has at least 1204 health Notes: Atma's Impaler is one of the most cost-effective items in game, surpassing Pickaxe on any lvl 18 AD champion (without HP items). [nextcol] [[Sunfire cape]] Cost:2650 Gold Value 450 health = 1188g 45 armor = 900g Total Gold Value = 2088g Gold Efficiency The passive must have at least a value of 562g for Sunfire Cape to be gold efficient.[/columns][/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]but the thing is crit chance just doesnt make any sense on renekton and 45 armor is pitiful when you could build other higher armor items and still do stupid damage BECAUSE OF RENEKTONS BASE DAMAGES(ive said this before which is why i put it in caps maybe youll read it this time) it will never matter if atmas is gold efficient because the stats are a random mix that dont make sense, crit armor and AD IF you build more hp (btw 15 AD is kinda shitty especially if you have to build 1k hp for it might as well buy a dblade)[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=DillButt64] but the thing is crit chance just doesnt make any sense on renekton and 45 armor is pitiful when you could build other higher armor items and still do stupid damage BECAUSE OF RENEKTONS BASE DAMAGES(ive said this before which is why i put it in caps maybe youll read it this time) it will never matter if atmas is gold efficient because the stats are a random mix that dont make sense, crit armor and AD IF you build more hp (btw 15 AD is kinda shitty especially if you have to build 1k hp for it might as well buy a dblade) [/quote] Renekton has 53.12 base AD, at level 18 he has only 108.92 AD at lvl 1 he's not even amoung the top 15 in that contest. So at no point does Renekton have high "base damage" compared to other AD champions. At 3500 HP Atma's gives you 52.5 AD which is worth 1890 gold. Even if you don't count the crit chance it gives it's still a great item and stupidly cost efficient. With it you can simply build HP items which is a normal thing to do as a tank. Frankly I think you're just very prejudiced against atma's. Can you tell me exactly why is Atma's bad?[/quote]

[quote=mastrer1000]we were referring to the base damages of renke'S abilities, not to his base ad.[/quote]