Atma's Impaler Renekton

[quote=Andrax1]I was pretty unsatisfied with the build I was using for Renekton because he just falls off and just starts to not be very useful so I was fiddling around and found that there are other possibly viable builds for Renekton. I don't think this is new since i found a similar build mentioned some time ago in the official lol forums but it's really not the current meta build. The build that is most common on him and previously my default build, which I will refer to as the "meta build" is [[Brutalizer]]->[[Ninja Tabi]]->[[Sunfire Cape]]->[[Spirit Visage]]->[[Randuin's Omen]]->[[Ravenous Hydra]]->[[Black Cleaver]] So the build I came up with builds around Atma's Impaler which gives you armor and scales your AD off of your Health. For [color=#00ffff]Balanced Enemy Comps[/color]:[[Brutalizer]]-> [[Avarice Blade]]-> [[Ninja Tabi]]/[[Mercury's Treads]]-> [[Randuin's Omen]]-> [[Spirit Visage]]-> [[Atma's Impaler]]-> [[Warmog's Armor]]-> [[Black Cleaver]] For [color=#800080]AP Heavy Enemy Comps[/color]:[[Hexdrinker]]-> [[Avarice Blade]]-> [[Ionian boots of lucidity]]-> [[Spirit Visage]]-> [[Frozen Mallet]]/[[Randuin's Omen]]-> [[Atma's Impaler]]-> [[Warmog's Armor]]-> [[Maw of Malmortius]] [icon=Infinity Edge][color=#ffff00]Wreck-A-Ton[/color]:[[B. F. Sword]]->[[Avarice Blade]]-> [[Ionian boots of lucidity]]-> [[Randuin's Omen]]-> [[Spirit Visage]]-> [[Atma's Impaler]]-> [[Warmog's Armor]]-> [[Infinity Edge]] The core of the build is Spirit Visage/Randiun's Omen, Frozen Mallet, Atma's Impaler, and Warmog's Armor giving a lot of health which synergizes great with s4 masteries and tankiness effectively depending on what he needs while also giving him a good amount of damage. +[[Atma's Impaler]] helps Renekton scale his damage better and earlier while giving him a good amount of armor. [[Ruthless Predator]] can crit on the first hit and I'm not sure yet but I believe [[Dominus]] works with Atma's passive to give him more ad when it's on. Also you can get [[avarice blade]] early so you can get your items faster. +[[Infinity Edge]] Combined with [[Atma's Impaler]] you will have 40% crit chance and 250% crit damage, with that, nearly half of the time you use [[Ruthless Predator]] you will be one shotting most your targets, one of the most satisfying things in life. As Renekton you'll also have to auto attack while you wait for your cooldowns if you don't want to just be a meat sheild. Since you're already getting Atma's that also gives crit, why not take an IE that synergizes with it? 435 DPS with 40% crit chance gives you a pretty staple source of damage, given you're not just being a meat sheild. If you prefer [[Bloodthirster]] that's just as good, not as much dps but a lot of lifesteal and AD. [color=#ff0000]The Role of Renekton[/color] The way I play him is similar to how [[Zac]], [[Aatrox]], and [[Shyvana]] are played, lets call them divers. In teamfights I use my gap closer [[slice and dice]] to dive towards the backline in order to kill or at the very least get the carries low to zone them out so they cant participate in the fight. Unlike assassins, they do not hide or go in only when they wont be focused or cc'd, which is why divers need to build tanky. The other role people seem to be suggesting is an AOE dps tank. The best guy that does that is obviously [[singed]]. The reason why he's good at it is because he does an insane amount with his poison and his trail gives him a big AOE. The reason why I think [[Renekton]] is not an effective AOE champ is because he does not have a large AOE, he does not have any CC in his AOE kit, nor does he do significant amounts of damage with his AOE, meaning he has no qualities which make him a good AOE champ. Because Renekton's AOE is an area around his body(point blank), he cant deal it without being next to people therefore it is very unlikely that you will be dealing your AOE to more than two people at a time because of the fact that in teamfights or pretty much anywhere outside the fountain, enemy champions never conveniently stand so close next to each other. This is why I believe single target dps/burst is more important to Renekton than AOE. Because as a diver he needs more single target damage output so he can kill or zone the enemy carries effectively. [color=#808000]Numbers:[/color] I initially didn't want to put it here because I felt it would make this post a little too long but I think it's my best and most definitive proof/arguement for the viability or even the superiority of the Atma's Impaler Build for Renekton. I will be comparing it to the meta build since I don't think it would make sense to you otherwise. [Columns] [nextcol] [Color=Black]X[/color] Items: Item Cost: DPS: Physical Health*: Magic Health*: Health: Health Regen: Mana: Mana Regen: Armor: Magic Resist: Dodge: Tenacity: Movement Speed: Gold/10: Attack Damage: Attack Speed: Crit Chance: Crit Damage: Ability Power: Life Steal: Spell Vamp: Armor Pen: Magic Pen: Cooldown Red: [Nextcol] [color=#ff0000]Meta Build[/color] [icon=ninja tabi][icon=sunfire cape][icon=spirit visage][icon=randuin's omen][icon=ravenous hydra][icon=the black cleaver] 15700 229.8 11462 7350 3542 66.5 0 0 223.6 107.5 0 0 390 0 234 0.982 0 0 0 12 0 10|0 0|0 30 [Nextcol] [color=#ffff00]Wreck-A-Ton Build[/color] [Icon=Ionian Boots of Lucidity][icon=Randuin's Omen][Icon=Spirit Visage][icon=atma's impaler][icon=warmog's armor][icon=infinity edge] 15680 382.8 11622 8076 3892 48.2 0 0 198.6 107.5 0 0 390 0 237 0.982 40 150 0 0 0 0|0 0|0 35 [nextcol][color=#00ffff]Safe Atma's Build[/color] [Icon=Ninja Tabi][icon=Randuin's Omen][Icon=Spirit Visage][icon=atma's impaler][icon=warmog's armor][icon=the Black Cleaver] 14880 254.9 13242 8491 4092 48.2 0 0 223.6 107.5 0 0 390 0 220 0.982 18 100 0 0 0 10|0 0|0 30 [/columns] *Physical Health and Magic Health is [url=http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Health#Effective_Health]effective health[/url] against physical and magic damage respectively. **These stats do not include runes and masteries.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]Atma's Impaler is a really bad item. It's meant to be a mix of tankiness and damage, but it got nerfed to the ground back in season 2 when the strongest build for any bruiser was [[warmog's armor]] + [[atma's impaler]]. Since then it's been really bad and it really isn't worth building it on anyone. Assuming you have 3500 HP, it's only going to give you 52 AD, and some crit chance which is barely worth mentioning because it's so low and you have no attack speed. If you want damage, go for BT or Hydra. They have more AD which is better for your ratios, and tbh the lifesteal is probably stronger for defensive uses than the armor from Atma's. Cleaver is also a stronger damage item. Atma's atm has no place on any champ until they give it either stronger offensive stats or stronger defensive stats. Also the crit chance is like they couldn't decide what to do with the item, and decided to randomize a stat onto it. I don't mean any offense to you with this post by the way, sorry if it comes across that way. Just sharing what I know.[/quote]

[quote=DoomGlad]Tbh I don't think that build would work it competitive play. It's called a "meta" build for a reason. Because people use it and it is good. Sorry if I am offending you :([/quote]

[quote=Andrax1][quote=Vapora Dark] Atma's Impaler is a really bad item. It's meant to be a mix of tankiness and damage, but it got nerfed to the ground back in season 2 when the strongest build for any bruiser was [[warmog's armor]] + [[atma's impaler]]. Since then it's been really bad and it really isn't worth building it on anyone. Assuming you have 3500 HP, it's only going to give you 52 AD, and some crit chance which is barely worth mentioning because it's so low and you have no attack speed. If you want damage, go for BT or Hydra. They have more AD which is better for your ratios, and tbh the lifesteal is probably stronger for defensive uses than the armor from Atma's. Cleaver is also a stronger damage item. Atma's atm has no place on any champ until they give it either stronger offensive stats or stronger defensive stats. Also the crit chance is like they couldn't decide what to do with the item, and decided to randomize a stat onto it. I don't mean any offense to you with this post by the way, sorry if it comes across that way. Just sharing what I know. [/quote] Hydra may give more AD than Atma's but the build still gives more AD that Hydra+Cleaver. At full build at level 18(~4400HP) the atma's build gives 20 more AD than the meta build. This is because of the synergy you can have with atma's and the rest of items that you can be just as tanky and deal more damage at the same time. If you build Hydra+Cleaver+Mallet+Randuins+Sunfire+Ionian You will have 10 more AD, the same amount of armor but 560 less HP. Here are the stats for Atma's build [list] Item Cost:15430 [/list] [list] DPS:295.9 [/list] [list] Physical Health: 13115 [/list] [list] Magic Health: 6698 [/list] [list] Health: 4392 [/list] [list] Health Regen: 48.2 [/list] [list] Mana: 0 [/list] [list] Mana Regen: 0 [/list] [list] Armor: 198.6 [/list] [list] Magic Resist: 52.5 [/list] [list] Dodge: 0 [/list] [list] Tenacity: 0 [/list] [list] Movement Speed: 390 [/list] [list] Gold/10: 0 [/list] [list] [/list] [list] Attack Damage: 255.4 [/list] [list] Attack Speed: 0.982 [/list] [list] Crit Chance: 15 [/list] [list] Crit Damage: 100 [/list] [list] Ability Power: 0 [/list] [list] Life Steal: 0 [/list] [list] Spell Vamp: 0 [/list] [list] Armor Pen: 10|0 [/list] [list] Magic Pen: 0|0 [/list] [list] Cooldown Red: 25 [/list] [list] [/list] For the meta build [list] Item Cost:15700 [/list] [list] DPS:229.8 [/list] [list] Physical Health: 11462 [/list] [list] Magic Health: 7350 [/list] [list] Health: 3542 [/list] [list] Health Regen: 66.5 [/list] [list] Mana: 0 [/list] [list] Mana Regen: 0 [/list] [list] Armor: 223.6 [/list] [list] Magic Resist: 107.5 [/list] [list] Dodge: 0 [/list] [list] Tenacity: 0 [/list] [list] Movement Speed: 390 [/list] [list] Gold/10: 0 [/list] [list] [/list] [list] Attack Damage: 234 [/list] [list] Attack Speed: 0.982 [/list] [list] Crit Chance: 0 [/list] [list] Crit Damage: 0 [/list] [list] Ability Power: 0 [/list] [list] Life Steal: 12 [/list] [list] Spell Vamp: 0 [/list] [list] Armor Pen: 10|0 [/list] [list] Magic Pen: 0|0 [/list] [list] Cooldown Red: 30 [/list] Idk how to get the stats in mobafire so I used the an external site, idk if I can mention it. This doesn't include runes and masteries.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]U ignored Hydra's active[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]The only build I would ever use [[atma's impaler]] on would be. Boots, [[warmog's armor]], [[warmog's armor]], [[warmog's armor]], [[atma's impaler]], [[phantom dancer]]. And the only guys that could ever build that and get some use out of it are [[Mundo]] and maybe [[sion]]. With 5000 HP, [[atma's impaler]] actually gives 75 AD which makes it at this point stupidly cost efficient. And [[sion]] would go even up to 6000 HP, getting 90 AD out of it. But well, both of them have more efficient builds, so no [[atma's impaler]]. The item clearly needs to be rebuffed to 2% as the super high HP Warmog's is gone. Another good change would be replacing Crit with AS, this way finally an armor/AS item would exist again and on-hit defensive builds have more option. Maybe also change then the passive to a bonus proc damage based on your HP. [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img811/8145/5r0l.png[/img] This could be one way to do it, With the change to an on-hit effect and that it is only bonus HP, you can drastically increase the value and make it this way more worth it for health users. A [[warmog's armor]] would basically give this item the same damage [[wit's end]] would have. And a normal tank build of today has around 1500 bonus health, which leads to 60 bonus damage. This seems fairly balanced. The stats are worth 2300 gold and it costs 2400 gold.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]You guys might be putting really high standards from the OPness the you're used to on atma's impaler. It was OP that's why it was nerfed, the nerf was big but it's still viable. It's pretty hard to find a champion that uses the stats it gives because he has to be a bruiser that builds tanky, which is exactly what Renekton does. If you build lots of HP(which you can do because Atma's gives you Armor), the stats it gives you is more AD than a BF sword that scales up as you build more HP(which you get anyway from the champion and more as you level up), the armor of a chain vest, and some bonus crit, for only 2300 gold not to mention it becomes even more cost efficient if you farm up with avarice blade. Maybe the best thing about it is that you can build around it really well. It's really not the just item, it's the build. Idk how to argue the case for atma's anymore, to me the stats make it pretty evident that the atma's build is better than at least the meta build. Added a balanced enemy comp build order.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]The main focus is effective Health, not damage anyway. And [[ravenous hydra]] actually allows easier farming, lifesteal and burst. It works really well together with [[cull the meek]] aswell.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]The effective health of the atma's build IS better. For a better comparison since the referred meta build is for a balanced enemy comp as well, here are the stats for the balanced atma's build with ninja tabi boots. [list] Item Cost:15180 [/list] [list] DPS:293.2 [/list] [list] Jungle DPS:293.2 [/list] [list] Physical Health: 10885 * [/list] [list] Magic Health: 8906 * [/list] [list] [/list] [list] Health: 4292 [/list] [list] Health Regen: 48.2 [/list] [list] Mana: 0 [/list] [list] Mana Regen: 0 [/list] [list] Armor: 153.6 [/list] [list] Magic Resist: 107.5 [/list] [list] Dodge: 0 [/list] [list] Tenacity: 0 [/list] [list] Movement Speed: 390 [/list] [list] Gold/10: 0 [/list] [list] [/list] [list] Attack Damage: 253 [/list] [list] Attack Speed: 0.982 [/list] [list] Crit Chance: 15 [/list] [list] Crit Damage: 100 [/list] [list] Ability Power: 0 [/list] [list] Life Steal: 0 [/list] [list] Spell Vamp: 0 [/list] [list] Armor Pen: 10|0 [/list] [list] Magic Pen: 0|0 [/list] [list] Cooldown Red: 30 [/list] *Physical Health and Magic Health is effective health against physical and magic damage respectively. As you can see this atma's build gives 10885 Physical Health and 8906 Magic Health while the meta build gives 11462 Physical Health and 7350 Magic Health. The meta build has 557 more physical health but 1556 less magic health. The Atma's build gives more combined effective health than the meta build. Even when not calculating the masteries which benefits building health alot, the Atma's build IS better or at the very least just as viable as the meta build, something I doubt anyone can deny. And building health has a lot of other advantages like you have a larger margin to work with for a lot of stuff like for your passive [[Reign of Anger]], to proc second wind, you regenerate more health with perseverance, you get a lot more health from juggernaut etc. Field tested it today, it was reaaally fun, I just have to catch someone off, use my abilites then i'll just chase them down with frozen mallet until I crit. I believe I had more kills late game than ever with Renekton, I think in one game I even had more kills late game than I did in the other phases. Ate full range nid spears who had deathcap and lichbane and they did no more than 10% of my health with only visage for MR. Had a big grin on this croc's face all day. And now I do feel that the crit DOES give a ton more dps on Renekton because you do have to autoattack a lot while waiting for your abilities, and one shotting their carries with W is the most satisfying thing, it just turned me on. Just farming with avarice blade, I can see all the crit animations and i crit definitely a lot more than I expected. TL;DR I want this build's babies.[/quote]

[quote=Adovid]I used to dominate with Renek on Twisted Treeline against physical damage opponents by going sunfire atmas. I don't know if it's as viable as it used to be. My renek, the split pushing renek I played that got me a penta in ranked was starting with hydra and ninja tabi with green enchantment. Ghost ignite and then I got a black cleaver and a chainmail vest and started tower diving and pushing hella hard. I had the most CS in the game because I split pushed so much and never missed a minion. When I got the penta I'm pretty sure I had Maw of Malmortius and Twin Shadows, it was important for securing the last 2 kills So I think it must have been: Ninja Tabi, Ravenous hydra, Black Cleaver, GA, Maw of Malmortius and Twin Shadows with Green enchantment from early in the game.[/quote]