Help w/ Riven

[quote=Max Carter]I just bought [[Riven]] [: Help me with her '-' lol I'm planning to use her on jungle, but I believe I can solo top too, right? Masteries for jungle? I'm using 21/0/9 - as Stonewall... Is it the best? (with attack speed bonus, not CDR) Runes I'm with armor seals, MR per level glyphs and ArmP marks and quints (I can use flat AS or flat HP no quints too) for build, [[wriggle's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]] and tanky + atma's? Which would be the best starter area to early gank level 2? Double golems? Starting with cloth armor? I played her, but I did bad... my teammates lane were all pushed, so I couldn't gank... but my cassio said I was under-leveled, while nocturne was level 7 I was 5 (I didn't saw this, but maybe...) As the game proceeded we got smashed, nocturne ganked a lot - because my lanes were pushed... - and was 5/1 with wriggler's and boots while I had cloth armor and vampiric scepter... Then we started loosing, lux wasn't doing damage, neither cassio, and she was feeding very hard :/ If I remember I finished 3/5/4, with [[wriggler's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]], [[hexdrinker]] and [[warmog's armor]] - Felt kinda weak and squishy, so I bought warmog's, aiming for atmog's... But for my surprise, at the end of the game, the damage dealt graphic showed: I did 160k damage, lux and cassio did 80k each... So, can I trust on it? Can I base my damage output by those graphs? What you think about [[wriggle's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]], [[banshee's veil]], [[atma's impaler]], [[sunfire cape]]//[[force of nature]]//[[randuin's omen]]//[[the bloodthirster]]//[[trinity force]]//[[last whisper]]//[[guardian angel]]?? Her guides aren't good :/ And why not getting [[Sheen]] on her? I know she don't have mana, but tri-force can give slow, movement speed, more damage, more health and synergy with her passive? At least I think, if you focus on hitting between your spells, eventually you will have an awesome use of sheen...[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe]You need flat damage marks and quints, for jungle start with enemy wraits, get your wolves gank. The best starting item is [[doran's blade]] but [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item/vampiric-scepter-22]a cat is fine too[/url] Still I presonally think she's better as solo top. As solo top she's overlooked, but quite frankly she's nearly impossible to gank, is great to slow enemy farm while being a great farmer herself and has no sustain problems. her bigger weakness is that she can't really kill her enemy alone unless they screw up big time, but that's no biggie if you consider she's great for setting up ganks.[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]I had a very hard time starting with [[vampiric scepter]] :/ I really need AD runes? :/ Don't have IP for them On the jungle, who she can counter? and fight?[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=Max Carter] I had a very hard time starting with [[vampiric scepter]] :/ I really need AD runes? :/ Don't have IP for them On the jungle, who she can counter? and fight? [/quote] You don't NEED AD runes, but they make your earlygame batshit insane. [[Vampiric scepter]] is a safe jungle tool on riven if you don't think you're gonna gank at lvl 2, the trick is steal enemy wraits, do your volves, ask for CV on enemy minigolems, steal them if safe. You should ALWAYS steal enemy wraits, but if you don't really want to invade/gank lvl 2 the safes vamp route is: smite your blue wrait->do wolves, finish off wraits, OHLOOKSMITE'SUP minigolems, recall, buy cloth aromor and pots, clear jungle starting with golem buff, gank, fail*, get called noob*, ragequit* In the jungle you can counter pretty much EVRRRRRRRRYONE early, that's why she's a top tier jungler in the 1st place, the bitch hurts. Yet I wouldn't try to fight a WW with golem buff early game. I still think her place is solo top. *Optional[/quote]

[quote=Beeswarm17][quote=Max Carter] I just bought [[Riven]] [: Help me with her '-' lol I'm planning to use her on jungle, but I believe I can solo top too, right? Masteries for jungle? I'm using 21/0/9 - as Stonewall... Is it the best? (with attack speed bonus, not CDR)[/quote] She's entirely cooldown dependent. Why would you deliberately skip it when [[lethality]] is a terrible mastery in almost every way? It's a multiplicative bonus that adds less than 5% damage in the end. Get the CDR, skip the magic pen. Those are the best masteries from my jungle experience. You need the damage to get through it well. [quote] Runes I'm with armor seals, MR per level glyphs and ArmP marks and quints (I can use flat AS or flat HP no quints too) [/quote] Those runes are perfectly fine, but I like the combo of AD quints and ArPen marks. Lots of early game damage that continues to be effective. She scales so well with AD that it's kinda nuts to not take advantage of it, even if you're not building a lot of AD. [quote] for build, [[wriggle's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]] and tanky + atma's? Which would be the best starter area to early gank level 2? Double golems? Starting with cloth armor? [/quote] Best start to ganking at level 2? Whatever the hell you want, but either vamp scepter or Doran's blade, if you're confident. You shouldn't ever need cloth armor early, and you will overpower almost any champ in a 1v1 situation early. Broken Wings and that passive. [quote] I played her, but I did bad... my teammates lane were all pushed, so I couldn't gank... but my cassio said I was under-leveled, while nocturne was level 7 I was 5 (I didn't saw this, but maybe...) As the game proceeded we got smashed, nocturne ganked a lot - because my lanes were pushed... - and was 5/1 with wriggler's and boots while I had cloth armor and vampiric scepter... Then we started loosing, lux wasn't doing damage, neither cassio, and she was feeding very hard :/ [/quote] That's the issue with Riven. She needs those early ganks. However, don't forget to try to jump Nocturne in is own jungle. He's a bit more difficult to invade, but if you get him early enough, you can wreck him. If your lanes are pushed like that, it's not exactly your fault if you can't gank. Your lanes are not supposed to be doing that [i]because[/i] the jungler has an easier time ganking. Bad teammates are bad. [quote] If I remember I finished 3/5/4, with [[wriggle's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]], [[hexdrinker]] and [[warmog's armor]] - Felt kinda weak and squishy, so I bought warmog's, aiming for atmog's... But for my surprise, at the end of the game, the damage dealt graphic showed: I did 160k damage, lux and cassio did 80k each... So, can I trust on it? Can I base my damage output by those graphs? [/quote] Yeah, you deal a crapload of damage as Riven. Her passive is insane and should not be underestimated. Also, don't forget that it also counts damages to minions and jungle creeps. If you don't feel like you did well, then see what you can do better. I personally would have grabbed [[phage]] for the HP, AD, and slow, but if you were having a lot of problems with mages, then [[hexdrinker]] was fine. No real problem with warmogs. I'd say you didn't do terribly. [quote] What you think about [[wriggle's lantern]], [[mercury's treads]], [[banshee's veil]], [[atma's impaler]], [[sunfire cape]]//[[force of nature]]//[[randuin's omen]]//[[the bloodthirster]]//[[trinity force]]//[[last whisper]]//[[guardian angel]]?? [/quote] Those are all perfectly good items. I'd recommend all of them (except maybe triforce, but I'll get to why in a second.) [quote] Her guides aren't good :/ And why not getting [[Sheen]] on her? I know she don't have mana, but tri-force can give slow, movement speed, more damage, more health and synergy with her passive? At least I think, if you focus on hitting between your spells, eventually you will have an awesome use of sheen... [/quote] Well, as one of those guide-writers, he's why I don't like [[sheen]] on her. No mana, no AP, and a relatively low base AD scaling with levels. It doesn't provide nearly the benefit to her that it does to other champs that would use triforce. In fact, her designer specifically stated HE BUILT HER TO NOT USE SHEEN. It's the reason I get [[frozen mallet]] instead. If you really want triforce, you can (actually the currently top rated guide recommends it in the build, even if I don't like it), but again, I can make better use out of [[phage]]. [quote=Max Carter] I had a very hard time starting with [[vampiric scepter]] :/ I really need AD runes? :/ Don't have IP for them On the jungle, who she can counter? and fight? [/quote] If you start with vamp scepter, you NEED the AD runes. You just won't do enough damage to really sustain yourself past double golems. You used to need AD marks, too, but they buffed her a couple patches ago. My two cents on it. I'm also one of those who likes her solo top, but she makes for a good jungle, too.[/quote]

[quote=Max Carter]@Beeswarm17 Your guide is very good... I only look for the guides who have something like 75% more... so many guides to see if I would read them all... I think I know how I'll build her... I need to decide if I keep [[wriggle's lantern]] or sell it for [[randuin's omen]] later... Really don't know, I think it depends on the game, right? CDR glyphs or MR/level? Can't decide either :/[/quote]

[quote=Beeswarm17]You're right; it does depend on the game. Wriggles is a good early game item, but it looses some of it's effectiveness late game. You can swap it out for something tanky (like randuin's) or damaging (like bloodthirster), or just leave it there for the ward. Up to you. Test them and decide what works for you. Since Riven has no mana, she is only limited by cooldowns. If you get more defensive items, you might not have to get too many CDR items. MR items tend to be easier to get than CDR, since I favor Merc Treads. However, scaling MR is definitely solid choice as well. The nice thing about those two runes is how widely functional they are. You can use them on a lot of different champs and do just fine. MR/level is more overall functional, but CDR is nice, too. It's all up to personal preference. If you want to use skills more often, CDR. If you want to be more tanky, MR/level.[/quote]