AS + ArmPen Twitch

[quote=Xaioli][quote=Kyzbet] Hello, This is how I play Twitch, just wrote my own guide. Tell me your opinions if I need to improve something on my gamestyle. My objective is share and learn if I'm doing something wrong. http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/twitch-bc-40667 Enjoy :) [/quote] Looking over your build, it looks pretty solid. Several issues are this: - 2 Phantom Dancers are a bad idea. I would take it if it still had it's dodge, but with the dodge gone, Twitch's main survivalbility is now gone. If you look at my build, I like to follow the "6 Build". 1 Defense, 2 AS, 2 DMG, 1 Boots. 2 Phantom Dancers are too much, and are a bit too pricy. Your build has 3 AS items to me (Phant x2 , Madreds). You have 2 AD items and that's fine. Also, your boots are essential. However, the thing EVERY Twitch needs is defense. You said that Twitch needs defense, and to be aware of TF. The only reason why I'd be scared of TF is his ultimate. A QSS, Banshee's Veil is make the bad things go away. Those items will also give Twitch great survivalbility in team fights (Cleansing Exhaust in team fights). Btw, Cleanse + BSV is OP. - I can't say I agree with your skill leveling. I do agree that maxing Expunge is an essential. However, I would only get several points into Debilitating Poison, and would max Ambush instead. We can both agree that AS is needed for Twitch even more since the last patch, and Ambush is the only spell that gives Twitch AS now. I feel that a slow isn't as important as giving your enemies the mindset of a MIA Twitch, and a rapid firing rodent. Stealth is what makes enemies scared of Twitch. Even with Oracles/Wards. Besides that, a Twitch is pretty much nothing w/o a decent team.[/quote]

[quote=Kyzbet][quote=Xaioli] - 2 Phantom Dancers are a bad idea. I would take it if it still had it's dodge, but with the dodge gone, Twitch's main survivalbility is now gone. If you look at my build, I like to follow the "6 Build". 1 Defense, 2 AS, 2 DMG, 1 Boots. 2 Phantom Dancers are too much, and are a bit too pricy. Your build has 3 AS items to me (Phant x2 , Madreds). You have 2 AD items and that's fine. Also, your boots are essential. However, the thing EVERY Twitch needs is defense. You said that Twitch needs defense, and to be aware of TF. The only reason why I'd be scared of TF is his ultimate. A QSS, Banshee's Veil is make the bad things go away. Those items will also give Twitch great survivalbility in team fights (Cleansing Exhaust in team fights). Btw, Cleanse + BSV is OP. [/quote] I've saw your build and you use the "6 build", but I can't agree on that. I think defensive items on Twitch is a BIG waste of money. Twitch is supposed to attack when the enemies started the teamfight (when they wasted already 1 or 2 abilites) so you can kill em all and still let your team survive it. What's the point of wasting 2k-3k gold on defensive item when you can waste it on a 2nd PD which will put your Twitch with 80%+ CrC + Badass armor pen (from BC). Even if you get 1 badass defensive item as soon you're focused... you're gone, the only way to escape is: Q->cleanse->flash out-> wait invis and run. You already have some little armor/MR from runes on my build and it's enough to let you gain advantage on lane, later game it's all up to position and right time to let the [[spray and pray]] beast out. [quote=Xaioli] - I can't say I agree with your skill leveling. I do agree that maxing Expunge is an essential. However, I would only get several points into Debilitating Poison, and would max Ambush instead. We can both agree that AS is needed for Twitch even more since the last patch, and Ambush is the only spell that gives Twitch AS now. I feel that a slow isn't as important as giving your enemies the mindset of a MIA Twitch, and a rapid firing rodent. Stealth is what makes enemies scared of Twitch. Even with Oracles/Wards. Besides that, a Twitch is pretty much nothing w/o a decent team. [/quote] Stealth is what makes your enemies scared but (once again) if you have the right position after you leave [[ambush]] you can easily get the 6 stacks on the enemy and [[expunge]] it, it's a certain kill! If he's trying to reach you before the 6 stacks on him you can use the slow, go back a little space and keep hitting AND BOOM [[expunge]], its done! Why lvling something that doesn't give you the big damage you need? Zeal already give you a good AS boost at beginning. Well, and if you can't go in bush and hide 10 seconds and go back 20sec hidden... Of course, you need to be more careful now since you can't keep using [[ambush]] everytime but only when you need to escape or kill. But 20sec is enough to let you do your job. Keep the opinions coming, I'm curious. (This is not [b]PRO OPINION ABOUT HOW IT SHOULD BE PLAYED[/b], this is [b]HOW I THINK[/b] it should be played)[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=Kyzbet] [quote=Xaioli] - 2 Phantom Dancers are a bad idea. I would take it if it still had it's dodge, but with the dodge gone, Twitch's main survivalbility is now gone. If you look at my build, I like to follow the "6 Build". 1 Defense, 2 AS, 2 DMG, 1 Boots. 2 Phantom Dancers are too much, and are a bit too pricy. Your build has 3 AS items to me (Phant x2 , Madreds). You have 2 AD items and that's fine. Also, your boots are essential. However, the thing EVERY Twitch needs is defense. You said that Twitch needs defense, and to be aware of TF. The only reason why I'd be scared of TF is his ultimate. A QSS, Banshee's Veil is make the bad things go away. Those items will also give Twitch great survivalbility in team fights (Cleansing Exhaust in team fights). Btw, Cleanse + BSV is OP. [/quote] I've saw your build and you use the "6 build", but I can't agree on that. I think defensive items on Twitch is a BIG waste of money. Twitch is supposed to attack when the enemies started the teamfight (when they wasted already 1 or 2 abilites) so you can kill em all and still let your team survive it. What's the point of wasting 2k-3k gold on defensive item when you can waste it on a 2nd PD which will put your Twitch with 80%+ CrC + Badass armor pen (from BC). Even if you get 1 badass defensive item as soon you're focused... you're gone, the only way to escape is: Q->cleanse->flash out-> wait invis and run. You already have some little armor/MR from runes on my build and it's enough to let you gain advantage on lane, later game it's all up to position and right time to let the [[spray and pray]] beast out. [color=red]I can't brag that I have a super high rating in ranked (1380's~), but I believe that ranked matches are where it gets more intense and serious. I've encountered many teams with anti carries and their team has FIVE EXHAUSTS. People deliberately WAIT for you to come out to drop stunhammers on you. Tell me that your Phantom Dancers will save you from 5 exhausts and stuns. Your build might do a bit more damage than mine, but I give full protection against things like that. People will do ANYTHING to stop a Twitch, and I will guarantee you I will get more shots off than you. Your AS, Crit Cap, and Armor Pen will do nothing for you in that situation. [/color] [quote=Xaioli] - I can't say I agree with your skill leveling. I do agree that maxing Expunge is an essential. However, I would only get several points into Debilitating Poison, and would max Ambush instead. We can both agree that AS is needed for Twitch even more since the last patch, and Ambush is the only spell that gives Twitch AS now. I feel that a slow isn't as important as giving your enemies the mindset of a MIA Twitch, and a rapid firing rodent. Stealth is what makes enemies scared of Twitch. Even with Oracles/Wards. Besides that, a Twitch is pretty much nothing w/o a decent team. [/quote] Stealth is what makes your enemies scared but (once again) if you have the right position after you leave Ambush you can easily get the 6 stacks on the enemy and Expunge it, it's a certain kill! If he's trying to reach you before the 6 stacks on him you can use the slow, go back a little space and keep hitting AND BOOM Expunge, its done! Why lvling something that doesn't give you the big damage you need? Zeal already give you a good AS boost at beginning. Well, and if you can't go in bush and hide 10 seconds and go back 20sec hidden... Of course, you need to be more careful now since you can't keep using Ambush everytime but only when you need to escape or kill. But 20sec is enough to let you do your job. [color=red]That's exactly the point. Your Zeal gives a decent amount of AS early game, but not much to show any huge changes. Ambush is what makes it shine. Several ranks of slow is good enough for you to quickly drop 6 stacks into a 3.25-4.75 Slow bomb. Ambush gives junglers the shivers, Ambush makes lanes fear the sight of "Twitch Mia". Hell, sometimes, I just sit in a lane stealth, soaking up exp just to buy time for my partners to gain back control of their lane because the enemies are scared of Twitch. [/color] Keep the opinions coming, I'm curious. (This is not [b]PRO OPINION ABOUT HOW IT SHOULD BE PLAYED[/b], this is [b]HOW I THINK[/b] it should be played) [/quote] [color=red]If I sounded heated, my bad. This is also not a pro opinion. Just my thoughts trying to be helpful.[/color][/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]TBH I'd have to lean a bit more strongly toward's Xaioli's point of view here. I see Banshee's Veil now in almost every normal game I'm in (I just got off of a 20 game win streak, so I'm being paired up with better and better players). Even the squishies take it now, and I have to say, whenever I see a Twitch on the enemy team or they see one on mine, he is ALWAYS the priority target (for good reason). As Xaioli said, many teams will deliberately wait for you to come out and dump all their CC on you - no Phantom Dancer will save you from that, while a Banshee's Veil will at least let you survive quite a bit longer. When most CCs and stuns last only 2 or 3 seconds, that makes a huge difference in how you play. Granted, if your playstyle suits getting that Phantom Dancer over a Banshee's Veil, clearly it works. My personal preference, however, would also be the Veil.[/quote]

[quote=Iratesniper]Check your Build, I posted[/quote]

[quote=Kyzbet]@Xaioli I've check it after I grow up my ELO I can understand people keeps waiting Twitch, and they clearly wait for me, IF this is the case, I really need a BV (Cleanse + BV) its the way to escape! If I see they're not even warding or they don't have much CC I still follow my Build. One thing I've changed: Now I level [[Ambush]] to lvl5 before the slow. @Iratesniper [quote=Iratesniper] 1. expunge is a must for your first skill, the problem with ambush is that you don't need it right away, that's why we have bushes(not to mention you cant stay invisible for long at level 1). most of the time during first contact the opponent gets away with little health, this is the time for expunge. 2. life steal is not needed but it helps a lot. getting an item like executioner's call early on helps with lifesteal almost the whole game. 3. flash is also has greater uses than cleanse, simply being you could get stunned yes, but your more than likely to get slowed, fear, etc., and if you get slowed flash behind an object. this will get you further away from the enemies, and by the time they catch up to you the slow will be worn off. Flash also helps for chasing and running from champions. The little distance you gain from flash can give you enough time to use ambush. Further more, i cant agree with low ambush in the beginning. Whats with the armor and magic resist runes? you need critical chance/damage or attack speed Debilitating Poison should not be gotten that early, its the least needed skill that is if you had good as or crit in runes. Again with your masteries why do you need magic resist and armor. twitch is squishy hes an assassin after all, your wasting runes and masteries by making him more resistant to attacks but less deadly. [/quote] I understand you have your build and your own ideas about Twitch as I do have mine but what you told me is a pure copy of your build, and you're saying me "You sold use my build". I agree with Xaioli after I grow up my ELO and after some plays I can understand more and more about Twitch (I'm new to LoL for like 1 and half month), anyway, doran's blade already has a decent Lifesteal to hold you on lane. I still keep this discussion open so I can learn more, I followed Xaioli advices and they let me escape to a good number of deaths against CCers. I just don't want people to downvote mine so I can go check other builds, that's not respectful for noone of us neither for the community.[/quote]