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I don't have plans on writing a guide about Olaf. If someone wants to take the discussion here, finds it successful, and write a guide about it... hey, go nuts.

I bought Olaf a long time ago back when he was on sale. Played him once, then shelved him and went back to getting better at Blitzcrank. I'm still only lvl 16, so at this point a lot of this is theorycrafting since Olaf cannot jungle effectively without runes and full masteries (right now I just mostly semi-duo top with someone, hopping down to kill ghosts and dogs periodically. It doesn't work if the two people up top are aware of how weak Olaf is in lane.) You'd figure that would mean it should be in the Theory Crafting forum, but it seems like this is the place to discuss builds in detail, and that's what I'm after.

The rune builder thing wouldn't work for me, so our runes would be:

9x Armor Pen Marks
9x Flat Armor Seals
9x Scaling MR Glyphs
3x Armor Pen Quints

Armor pen is better than AD for us, and is necessary for jungling. Flat armor yellows are necessary for jungling and are pretty much best in slot, anyway. Nothing in blue is seriously attractive to Olaf, but scaling MR are pretty much BiS there and are pretty nice to have.

Masteries would look like this.

I've seen guides saying 21 utility but I don't think it brings as much to the table as 21 offensive. You get armor pen, bonus overall damage, and even some extra damage vs minions. Honestly, middle offensive sucks (so does middle defensive), but the armor pen and total damage are very nice. I can see a case for any of the three 21 pointers, though. I just think offensive suits Olaf best.

Items would work out to be this.

Essentially, I would choose to build like this:

Start with your armor and 5 potions. Turn the armor into Madred's as soon as you have the money.

Buy boots of speed (by time you can afford them it's probably time to start ganking and you'll need them.) Turn Madred's into a Wriggle's when you can afford it.

Turn boots into Mercury's Treads when you can afford it. You're not powerful enough at this stage of the game (unless they've been feeding in which case get a Sword of the Occult and go nuts) to rely purely on your ult to prevent you from getting cornholed during a CC combo and the faster move speed is very necessary.

Buy a Phantom Dancer. You get crit, you get move speed, and you get attack speed, so you aren't wholly reliant on your passive to get good sustained DPS. With lvl 2 boots and your dancer you'll have something like 447 base move speed, which will let you run down damned near everyone (Ghost is always around if they manage to move faster than you.)

Build a Warmog's. The HP bumps up your W and ensures you can survive burst combos long enough to get on top of someone and start abusing your HP drain to stay alive.

Build Atma's. The obvious followup to Warmog's. Lots of AD, some armor, and the crit brings you up to a nice, even 50% crit.

Finish with a Bloodthirster. With Atmog's you'll be very hard to kill, ensuring you can hang onto those stacks. Fully stacked, you're getting a massive 100 AD from it, and 25% drain.

We end up with about 3500 HP, around 65% armor reduction, about 50% magic reduction, up to about 390 AD when our W is active (Undertow will be hitting for 405 every 4 sec!), 64% drain while W is up, and 61 armor pen (meaning you'll eat anything that isn't a tank, basically.) You'll have about 1.4 attack speed at full HP, so even if you're at full health you'll still hit fairly fast. Oh, and the free wards from Wriggle's are pretty baller.

Seems like the way to play would be to jungle and generally play relatively safely until you finish Phantom Dancer, at which point go nuts. With the PD, you'd have the move speed to run down most people, the damage to butcher them once you catch them, and with about 39% drain (depending on what level your W is), you should be able to sustain yourself well. Once you get Atmog's I'm pretty sure you'll be almost immortal, and the Bloodthirster is just icing on the cake. I'm thinking making Zeal before finishing boots might be the best way of doing things (you still get good move speed and the Zeal will help out with your damage output.)

I'm not entirely sure on what way to skill, though. Lately I just skill Q and W and ignore E entirely (Q is needed for everything and the free drain from W is awesome), but it seems like a shame to just skip E like I've been doing since 340 true damage is pretty slick. But at the same time, I can't justify not maxing Undertow ASAP, and it seems like W wouldn't be worth a whole lot if it's not maxed, either, since the drain scales as you do more and more damage.

Additionally, since I haven't been able to jungle, I'm wondering about the viability of a solo top Olaf.

Olaf's weaknesses in lane are apparent - Undertow has a long cooldown if you can't pick up the axe, his sustain is reliant on attacking (which, combined with Undertow being AOE will push the lane), and it seems like a ranged would just **** all over him because of it. But solo tops are frequently tanks, which are all melee. Undertow has a very brief cooldown and reasonable mana cost when you can pick up the axe (which you could do vs a melee champ, since you'd just throw it at your feet), which would allow it to do some excellent poking. Using W to sustain would still push the lane, but you could maybe alternate between W and E (E also has a low mana cost and low cooldown, which could allow for some very nasty poke as long as you could maintain Q+E combos) instead of ignoring E in this case.

I'd still probably take Wriggle's even as lane Olaf, simply because it works well with him, and as I said earlier, free wards are pretty baller. Laning would also allow you to dump Smite for Exhaust, which would help Olaf gank/be useful in the early game quite a bit, and would make him even more of a ridiculous "YOUR CARRY IS USELESS" monster later.

Only problem, though, is what happens if they decide to switch from the usual "ranged AD /w babysitter" bot setup and send that ranged AD solo top? Support with a tank bot can still perform well (since you'd be able to setup some nasty CC combos, think of how gross Alistar+Cho'gath would be) and the ranged AD would have very little to fear from Olaf, which would more or less force him to hide in the bushses most of the time and thus lose a lot of CS.

[quote=Urscythe]I don't have plans on writing a guide about Olaf. If someone wants to take the discussion here, finds it successful, and write a guide about it... hey, go nuts. I bought Olaf a long time ago back when he was on sale. Played him once, then shelved him and went back to getting better at Blitzcrank. I'm still only lvl 16, so at this point a lot of this is theorycrafting since Olaf cannot jungle effectively without runes and full masteries (right now I just mostly semi-duo top with someone, hopping down to kill ghosts and dogs periodically. It doesn't work if the two people up top are aware of how weak Olaf is in lane.) You'd figure that would mean it should be in the Theory Crafting forum, but it seems like this is the place to discuss builds in detail, and that's what I'm after. The rune builder thing wouldn't work for me, so our runes would be: 9x Armor Pen Marks 9x Flat Armor Seals 9x Scaling MR Glyphs 3x Armor Pen Quints Armor pen is better than AD for us, and is necessary for jungling. Flat armor yellows are necessary for jungling and are pretty much best in slot, anyway. Nothing in blue is seriously attractive to Olaf, but scaling MR are pretty much BiS there and are pretty nice to have. Masteries would look like [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=3-0-1-0-1-4-0-0-3-2-3-3-0-1&tree2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0]this.[/url] I've seen guides saying 21 utility but I don't think it brings as much to the table as 21 offensive. You get armor pen, bonus overall damage, and even some extra damage vs minions. Honestly, middle offensive sucks (so does middle defensive), but the armor pen and total damage are very nice. I can see a case for any of the three 21 pointers, though. I just think offensive suits Olaf best. Items would work out to be [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item-purchase-planner#&item=108-82-52-65-36-60]this.[/url] Essentially, I would choose to build like this: Start with your armor and 5 potions. Turn the armor into Madred's as soon as you have the money. Buy boots of speed (by time you can afford them it's probably time to start ganking and you'll need them.) Turn Madred's into a Wriggle's when you can afford it. Turn boots into Mercury's Treads when you can afford it. You're not powerful enough at this stage of the game (unless they've been feeding in which case get a Sword of the Occult and go nuts) to rely purely on your ult to prevent you from getting cornholed during a CC combo and the faster move speed is very necessary. Buy a Phantom Dancer. You get crit, you get move speed, and you get attack speed, so you aren't wholly reliant on your passive to get good sustained DPS. With lvl 2 boots and your dancer you'll have something like 447 base move speed, which will let you run down damned near everyone (Ghost is always around if they manage to move faster than you.) Build a Warmog's. The HP bumps up your W and ensures you can survive burst combos long enough to get on top of someone and start abusing your HP drain to stay alive. Build Atma's. The obvious followup to Warmog's. Lots of AD, some armor, and the crit brings you up to a nice, even 50% crit. Finish with a Bloodthirster. With Atmog's you'll be very hard to kill, ensuring you can hang onto those stacks. Fully stacked, you're getting a massive 100 AD from it, and 25% drain. We end up with about 3500 HP, around 65% armor reduction, about 50% magic reduction, up to about 390 AD when our W is active (Undertow will be hitting for 405 every 4 sec!), 64% drain while W is up, and 61 armor pen (meaning you'll eat anything that isn't a tank, basically.) You'll have about 1.4 attack speed at full HP, so even if you're at full health you'll still hit fairly fast. Oh, and the free wards from Wriggle's are pretty baller. Seems like the way to play would be to jungle and generally play relatively safely until you finish Phantom Dancer, at which point go nuts. With the PD, you'd have the move speed to run down most people, the damage to butcher them once you catch them, and with about 39% drain (depending on what level your W is), you should be able to sustain yourself well. Once you get Atmog's I'm pretty sure you'll be almost immortal, and the Bloodthirster is just icing on the cake. I'm thinking making Zeal before finishing boots might be the best way of doing things (you still get good move speed and the Zeal will help out with your damage output.) I'm not entirely sure on what way to skill, though. Lately I just skill Q and W and ignore E entirely (Q is needed for everything and the free drain from W is awesome), but it seems like a shame to just skip E like I've been doing since 340 true damage is pretty slick. But at the same time, I can't justify not maxing Undertow ASAP, and it seems like W wouldn't be worth a whole lot if it's not maxed, either, since the drain scales as you do more and more damage. Additionally, since I haven't been able to jungle, I'm wondering about the viability of a solo top Olaf. Olaf's weaknesses in lane are apparent - Undertow has a long cooldown if you can't pick up the axe, his sustain is reliant on attacking (which, combined with Undertow being AOE will push the lane), and it seems like a ranged would just shit all over him because of it. But solo tops are frequently tanks, which are all melee. Undertow has a very brief cooldown and reasonable mana cost when you can pick up the axe (which you could do vs a melee champ, since you'd just throw it at your feet), which would allow it to do some excellent poking. Using W to sustain would still push the lane, but you could maybe alternate between W and E (E also has a low mana cost and low cooldown, which could allow for some very nasty poke as long as you could maintain Q+E combos) instead of ignoring E in this case. I'd still probably take Wriggle's even as lane Olaf, simply because it works well with him, and as I said earlier, free wards are pretty baller. Laning would also allow you to dump Smite for Exhaust, which would help Olaf gank/be useful in the early game quite a bit, and would make him even more of a ridiculous "YOUR CARRY IS USELESS" monster later. Only problem, though, is what happens if they decide to switch from the usual "ranged AD /w babysitter" bot setup and send that ranged AD solo top? Support with a tank bot can still perform well (since you'd be able to setup some nasty CC combos, think of how gross Alistar+Cho'gath would be) and the ranged AD would have very little to fear from Olaf, which would more or less force him to hide in the bushses most of the time and thus lose a lot of CS.[/quote]

Thanks to Jsta for the sig image.

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wrote:

The rune builder thing wouldn't work for me, so our runes would be:

9x Armor Pen Marks
9x Flat Armor Seals
9x Scaling MR Glyphs
3x Armor Pen Quints

Sounds fine, though AD quints give a stronger jungle if you need them. If you don't, Arpen quints are better. Flat CDR glyphs are the other option if you like.

wrote:

Masteries would look like this.

I've seen guides saying 21 utility but I don't think it brings as much to the table as 21 offensive. You get armor pen, bonus overall damage, and even some extra damage vs minions. Honestly, middle offensive sucks (so does middle defensive), but the armor pen and total damage are very nice. I can see a case for any of the three 21 pointers, though. I just think offensive suits Olaf best.

I disagree. The jungler from TSM (TheOddOne) uses 0/9/21 on Olaf. I'm not just saying you have to match his tree because he's a pro though. If a jungler can get away (read: not have a slow/vulnerable jungle) with utility masteries, you absolutely should take them. Some junglers like Warwick need offense or they're too slow, while Amumu needs defense or he's too weak.

Also, 16/0/14 is probably the most effective tree in the game for a quick jungle. Don't underestimate the value of split mastery trees. 21/0/9 is okay if you want, but more utility will give a lot better stats while only weakening your jungle a tiny bit.

wrote:

Items would work out to be this.

Looks okay, but I personally can't imagine playing Olaf without or . The health and slow are just amazing on him, and will further boost your . Swapping for is the simplest change you could make, and it'll work great, trust me.

wrote:

I'm not entirely sure on what way to skill, though. Lately I just skill Q and W and ignore E entirely (Q is needed for everything and the free drain from W is awesome), but it seems like a shame to just skip E like I've been doing since 340 true damage is pretty slick. But at the same time, I can't justify not maxing Undertow ASAP, and it seems like W wouldn't be worth a whole lot if it's not maxed, either, since the drain scales as you do more and more damage.

QWQE, then R>Q>E>W. That's how TheOddOne plays him, and if it works for him it'll certainly work for you. I'm not exactly an Olaf expert, but I'm pretty sure W is your weakest skill and is only really helpful when you've built up some health. That's probably why he maxes it last.

wrote:

Additionally, since I haven't been able to jungle, I'm wondering about the viability of a solo top Olaf.

Olaf's weaknesses in lane are apparent - Undertow has a long cooldown if you can't pick up the axe, his sustain is reliant on attacking (which, combined with Undertow being AOE will push the lane), and it seems like a ranged would just **** all over him because of it. But solo tops are frequently tanks, which are all melee. Undertow has a very brief cooldown and reasonable mana cost when you can pick up the axe (which you could do vs a melee champ, since you'd just throw it at your feet), which would allow it to do some excellent poking. Using W to sustain would still push the lane, but you could maybe alternate between W and E (E also has a low mana cost and low cooldown, which could allow for some very nasty poke as long as you could maintain Q+E combos) instead of ignoring E in this case.

I'd still probably take Wriggle's even as lane Olaf, simply because it works well with him, and as I said earlier, free wards are pretty baller. Laning would also allow you to dump Smite for Exhaust, which would help Olaf gank/be useful in the early game quite a bit, and would make him even more of a ridiculous "YOUR CARRY IS USELESS" monster later.

Only problem, though, is what happens if they decide to switch from the usual "ranged AD /w babysitter" bot setup and send that ranged AD solo top? Support with a tank bot can still perform well (since you'd be able to setup some nasty CC combos, think of how gross Alistar+Cho'gath would be) and the ranged AD would have very little to fear from Olaf, which would more or less force him to hide in the bushses most of the time and thus lose a lot of CS.

He's not the worst pick in the game, but he's far from the best. Olaf is too easily countered, too easily zoned, and doesn't have enough presence to win against stronger solo tops. Even melee champions often have ranged pokes (, , etc). Since Olaf has no way of recovering health without autoattacking, he's pretty easy to harass into submission. If you do decide to solo top with him until you can jungle, definitely max Q and I hope you're very good with skillshots.
Also AP carry top isn't too uncommon atm. If they send Lux or Orianna up there you're pretty much screwed.

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=Urscythe] The rune builder thing wouldn't work for me, so our runes would be: 9x Armor Pen Marks 9x Flat Armor Seals 9x Scaling MR Glyphs 3x Armor Pen Quints [/quote] Sounds fine, though AD quints give a stronger jungle if you need them. If you don't, Arpen quints are better. Flat CDR glyphs are the other option if you like. [quote=Urscythe] Masteries would look like [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=3-0-1-0-1-4-0-0-3-2-3-3-0-1&tree2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-3-0-1-4-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0]this.[/url] I've seen guides saying 21 utility but I don't think it brings as much to the table as 21 offensive. You get armor pen, bonus overall damage, and even some extra damage vs minions. Honestly, middle offensive sucks (so does middle defensive), but the armor pen and total damage are very nice. I can see a case for any of the three 21 pointers, though. I just think offensive suits Olaf best. [/quote] I disagree. The jungler from TSM (TheOddOne) uses 0/9/21 on Olaf. I'm not just saying you have to match his tree because he's a pro though. If a jungler can get away (read: not have a slow/vulnerable jungle) with utility masteries, you absolutely should take them. Some junglers like Warwick need offense or they're too slow, while Amumu needs defense or he's too weak. Also, 16/0/14 is probably the most effective tree in the game for a quick jungle. Don't underestimate the value of split mastery trees. 21/0/9 is okay if you want, but more utility will give a lot better stats while only weakening your jungle a tiny bit. [quote=Urscythe] Items would work out to be [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/item-purchase-planner#&item=108-82-52-65-36-60]this.[/url] [/quote] Looks okay, but I personally can't imagine playing Olaf without [[Frozen Mallet]] or [[Trinity Force]]. The health and slow are just amazing on him, and will further boost your [[Atma's Impaler]]. Swapping [[Phantom Dancer]] for [[Trinity Force]] is the simplest change you could make, and it'll work great, trust me. [quote=Urscythe] I'm not entirely sure on what way to skill, though. Lately I just skill Q and W and ignore E entirely (Q is needed for everything and the free drain from W is awesome), but it seems like a shame to just skip E like I've been doing since 340 true damage is pretty slick. But at the same time, I can't justify not maxing Undertow ASAP, and it seems like W wouldn't be worth a whole lot if it's not maxed, either, since the drain scales as you do more and more damage. [/quote] QWQE, then R>Q>E>W. That's how TheOddOne plays him, and if it works for him it'll certainly work for you. I'm not exactly an Olaf expert, but I'm pretty sure W is your weakest skill and is only really helpful when you've built up some health. That's probably why he maxes it last. [quote=Urscythe] Additionally, since I haven't been able to jungle, I'm wondering about the viability of a solo top Olaf. Olaf's weaknesses in lane are apparent - Undertow has a long cooldown if you can't pick up the axe, his sustain is reliant on attacking (which, combined with Undertow being AOE will push the lane), and it seems like a ranged would just shit all over him because of it. But solo tops are frequently tanks, which are all melee. Undertow has a very brief cooldown and reasonable mana cost when you can pick up the axe (which you could do vs a melee champ, since you'd just throw it at your feet), which would allow it to do some excellent poking. Using W to sustain would still push the lane, but you could maybe alternate between W and E (E also has a low mana cost and low cooldown, which could allow for some very nasty poke as long as you could maintain Q+E combos) instead of ignoring E in this case. I'd still probably take Wriggle's even as lane Olaf, simply because it works well with him, and as I said earlier, free wards are pretty baller. Laning would also allow you to dump Smite for Exhaust, which would help Olaf gank/be useful in the early game quite a bit, and would make him even more of a ridiculous "YOUR CARRY IS USELESS" monster later. Only problem, though, is what happens if they decide to switch from the usual "ranged AD /w babysitter" bot setup and send that ranged AD solo top? Support with a tank bot can still perform well (since you'd be able to setup some nasty CC combos, think of how gross Alistar+Cho'gath would be) and the ranged AD would have very little to fear from Olaf, which would more or less force him to hide in the bushses most of the time and thus lose a lot of CS. [/quote] He's not the worst pick in the game, but he's far from the best. Olaf is too easily countered, too easily zoned, and doesn't have enough presence to win against stronger solo tops. Even melee champions often have ranged pokes ([[Rupture]], [[Seismic Shard]], [[Equilibrium]] etc). Since Olaf has no way of recovering health without autoattacking, he's pretty easy to harass into submission. If you do decide to solo top with him until you can jungle, definitely max Q and I hope you're very good with skillshots. Also AP carry top isn't too uncommon atm. If they send Lux or Orianna up there you're pretty much screwed.[/quote]